Why Do You Think Beast is Good/Bad?

[Ameraaaaaa]

Monster have so much weekness that a smart human can beet any monster plus i just feel great to be human We're all human what can i say

[Nyrufa]

I'm pretty sure Amera didn't mean a literal food chain. I think they were just using it to express that humans are the best.

Perhaps, but point still stands. Humans wield power only because of their numbers. One human isn't a threat, neither is 2, or 3, or maybe even 5. Not when the monster is just as smart, just as tech savy, and many times more physically capable than them.

Now 100 humans ganging up on one monster, however, that poses a threat. But if your only means of survival is the fact that you breed like jackrabbits, one has to question if you're truly the dominant species.

[Ameraaaaaa]

True humans are 2ed best in my opinion mage best thats all

[Charlaquin]

I'm pretty sure Amera didn't mean a literal food chain. I think they were just using it to express that humans are the best.

[Nyrufa]

i always thought that humens are the top of the food chart vampires have to drink blood werewolfs have problem controling themselfs promrthens want to be humen changeling are vetims mummys need cultists and sleep most of the time and are slaves to gods geists are reborn humens beasts need to feed on fear demens are hideing only mages are better then humens and they have paradox becuase of evil enarcs who ruined realty
sorry for badspelling

The only reason humanity is as high on the food chain as it is is due to A) our intelligence, and B) our technology.

Evolution has stripped us of our ability to survive in the wild without their assistance. I challenge you to go hunting in the forest with no tools, weapons or clothing and see how easily you can bring down live prey. Most of the apes we came from are strong enough to literally rip humans to shreds with their bare hands.

Now imagine that there are multiple species who possess that level of strength, in addition to human level intelligence and the capacity to use our technology. Suddenly, we're not on top of the food chain anymore, we're plummeting towards the bottom at terminal velocity.

[Bunyip]

Ameraaaaaa your posts are very difficult to read and understand.

[Ameraaaaaa]

Im i that perse

[Elfive]

...Pardon?

[Ameraaaaaa]

But what about hunters there iproof humans are the craftyist things humen 2ed best mage beast in my opinion

[nalak42]

i always thought that humens are the top of the food chart vampires have to drink blood werewolfs have problem controling themselfs promrthens want to be humen changeling are vetims mummys need cultists and sleep most of the time and are slaves to gods geists are reborn humens beasts need to feed on fear demens are hideing only mages are better then humens and they have paradox becuase of evil enarcs who ruined realty
sorry for badspelling

That's not how a food chain works Amera. Plus none of those are really disqualifying factors for a species technically being better than humans. (Whether or not the experience is would be up to debate.) Prometheans, mummies, and sin-eaters are night immoral, so it's not like humans can reliably kill them. The kindred, the beghotten, and changelings feed off or feed on humans (which is literally the primary qualifier for being higher in the food chain.) The garou having a temper is hardly a mark that they're inferior to humans. Especially when one takes into account that most humans have their psyche snap like a twig when facing a garou in chrinos form, before we get into actual physical superiority. Mages as stated are reality warpers. Then demons, are lets face it, in hiding from a being that only fails to be on the tier of a god because humanity is too insignificant a scale for it to easily and accurately manipulate without special tools.

[Ameraaaaaa]

i always thought that humens are the top of the food chart vampires have to drink blood werewolfs have problem controling themselfs promrthens want to be humen changeling are vetims mummys need cultists and sleep most of the time and are slaves to gods geists are reborn humens beasts need to feed on fear demens are hideing only mages are better then humens and they have paradox becuase of evil enarcs who ruined realty
sorry for badspelling

[Charlaquin]

If there's one thing I've learned from this thread, it's that the biggest controversies surrounding CofD gamelines tend to stem from the books being written from the protagonists' perspective rather than a more objective third party. We've seen the exact same issue with Mage.

Remember folks, CofD casts the players in the bad guys' shoes. We should always be looking at our protagonists with a critical eye, regardless of how the books present them. (Actually that goes for non-CofD media too, but especially with CofD.)

[Heavy Arms]

Just as a side note, because I don't think getting into it is the point of the thread:

"Vampires are a rape metaphor," is mostly a simplification of a much more complicated literary history of vampires and the violation of sexual taboos in Gothic (and Gothic inspired) literature. Part of this process was - at least in Western culture - a lot of the sexual taboos that vampires were originally used to explore in that context aren't really that taboo (either not really taboo at all, or not so taboo that they need to be addressed in metaphor to be approached in popular fiction) anymore, so only the more extreme taboos (like sexual assault and rape) remain as things to tap into.

[ArcaneArts]

I play games to enjoy myself, sure, but I hope to also learn things about myself and transform into a better, fuller person. These things are not mutually exlcusive-you can go on a deep dive of the soul and still make fart jokes while fighting dragons on skyscrapers.

Also there is no escaping reality. Games are art, art is communication, communication is not "neutral."

[Nyrufa]

Because from the beginning, the World of Darkness was meant to explore our world through the eyes of a monster.

Exactly, through the eyes of a monster. Not as a human, not as a psychopath, not as a sex offender or anything else that might seem abhorrent in the eyes of humanity. I am playing a different species; one who is literally higher on the food chain when it comes to a fair fight. I have no interest in playing a human character, nor do I have any interest in how a human might feel about my character's actions. I am not one of them and they are not one of me; so attempting to see eye to eye on matters is ridiculous.


I'm not denying that it exists, I'm just saying that I personally don't get the point of why they feel it needs to exist. If you don't like the subject matter being present in game, then just ignore it like I do; problem solved!


Personally, though, I feel that Changelings make a far more effective metaphor for rape than anything Vampire has to offer. I know the game its described as being a game about healing and moving forward, but honestly, everything about Changeling just screams 'rape victim.' Meanwhile, when I look at Vampires, I see them more as drug addicts than anything else. They hurt people to get their hands on a substance that makes them feel powerful and alive for a few hours before they're craving more of it. And if they go too long without their fix, they become aggressively violent.