Why Do You Think Beast is Good/Bad?

[nalak42]

Monster have so much weekness that a smart human can beet any monster plus i just feel great to be human We're all human what can i say

LMAO, you are aware humans have way more weaknesses than most of the splats? They heal slowly, are vulnerable to a large number of enviormental complications, and have crap perception. A garou can take a shotgun blast with far more survivability than a human if silver rounds aren't involved, humans just don't get extra from silver.

The Beghotten actually have a nice one I'm fond of, to bring back topic, they don't really have a set weakness. I mean starvation is the big threat to most Beasts, but what starves one of the Beasts will vary in a case to case basis. After that their weaknesses are entirely imbued by their primary predator species. Plus there's a kind of amusement in the fact that even the subsections of a Beast are not necessarily identifiable as the same species. A leviathan is not identified as the same family as a nightmare pirahnna swarm even though both might be Makara.

[Nyrufa]

"Turns out it's man!"

Another CofD-relevant Futurama quote...

"Knowing their weakness, I threw wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down!"

Another CoD - relevant quote. This one pertaining to 'human superiority.'

We're all human what can i say

Well, now you're being offensive to Otherkin.

[Paradim]

Well, now you're being offensive to Otherkin.

"Fuck you, I'm a dragon!" -the response from a Beast to a very terrified and confused vampire after the building was suddenly set on fire.

[Vent0]

"Knowing their weakness, I threw wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down!"

Another CoD - relevant quote. This one pertaining to 'human superiority.'





Well, now you're being offensive to Otherkin.

Don't forget AIs.

[Daigotsu Max]

"Fuck you, I'm a dragon!" -the response from a Beast to a very terrified and confused vampire after the building was suddenly set on fire.

See? This is why Beast is fun

[Elfive]

Other possible beast characters include "Literally Batman".

[Paradim]

See? This is why Beast is fun

When I realized that potential scenario... That was the moment I fell in love with Beast: The Primordial.

[Dusksage]

Alright, I love Beast and supernaturals just like everyone else here. But don't get too cocky.

I believe Ameraaaaaa's point was that there's a very good reason why Humans are feared by literally all other supernatural splats: They frustratingly adapt to their situations, and when determined are capable of accomplishing feats that would be normally improbable. I know earlier in the discussion their intelligence and technology was pretty much openly dismissed in favor of supernatural resilience and powers, and that's bogus because bombs count as technology and are a byproduct of human intelligence. And all supernatural splats will either die from explosions, or be fucked up in ways that they wish they would have died. Just like anything else caught in an explosion.

And that's just one example. Technology and human ingenuity make up the difference for lack of supernatural resilience and powers. And not having those benefits naturally makes humans fully aware of their frailty, which is why they're WILLING to go to such extremes when faced with the supernatural and reminded of just how fragile their lives are. That's why Hunters exist in the first place, and why the more collateral damage a monster make the shorter their lifespan becomes (with the sole exception of Mummies, but f$&k who would actually want to be one of the Arisen.) And in it's own way that's why Heroes exist, they're manifestations of Humanity's death anxiety given form within a normal human who gains preternatural abilities based around asserting dominance over the manifestation of human frailties, the Begotten themselves, or at least in a sense of things.

So in conclusion: Yes Mr. Dragon, it won't be the fire from the air to surface missile that kills you. It'll be the sheer concussive force from the missile that kills you. Along with killing everything else in the building, human or otherwise. That's why bombs are so terrifying.

[White Oak Dragon]

Alright, I love Beast and supernaturals just like everyone else here. But don't get too cocky.

I believe Ameraaaaaa's point was that there's a very good reason why Humans are feared by literally all other supernatural splats: They frustratingly adapt to their situations, and when determined are capable of accomplishing feats that would be normally improbable. I know earlier in the discussion their intelligence and technology was pretty much openly dismissed in favor of supernatural resilience and powers, and that's bogus because bombs count as technology and are a byproduct of human intelligence. And all supernatural splats will either die from explosions, or be fucked up in ways that they wish they would have died. Just like anything else caught in an explosion.

And that's just one example. Technology and human ingenuity make up the difference for lack of supernatural resilience and powers. And not having those benefits naturally makes humans fully aware of their frailty, which is why they're WILLING to go to such extremes when faced with the supernatural and reminded of just how fragile their lives are. That's why Hunters exist in the first place, and why the more collateral damage a monster make the shorter their lifespan becomes (with the sole exception of Mummies, but f$&k who would actually want to be one of the Arisen.) And in it's own way that's why Heroes exist, they're manifestations of Humanity's death anxiety given form within a normal human who gains preternatural abilities based around asserting dominance over the manifestation of human frailties, the Begotten themselves, or at least in a sense of things.

So in conclusion: Yes Mr. Dragon, it won't be the fire from the air to surface missile that kills you. It'll be the sheer concussive force from the missile that kills you. Along with killing everything else in the building, human or otherwise. That's why bombs are so terrifying.

The issue isn't whether human intelligence and technology can be used against supernatural creatures. They totally can be. The issue is that those things aren't possessed by humans alone. The supernatural creatures can use those things, too. It isn't "intelligence + technology vs magic powers". It's "intelligence + technology vs intelligence + technology + magic powers".

[Dusksage]

Ah, but then it would be supernatural creatures using human tools to kill humans!

Really, my point was more that human's lack of supernatural powers it what led to the development of science, technology, and medicine to make up the difference. Absence doesn't equate to weakness. Absence equates to necessary ingenuity. For example a dragon wouldn't logically need a bomb to destroy what's threatening it because it can just burnenate the countryside with it's fire breath that it's immune too. While a human would more logically use a bomb because it lacks said immunity and is desperate to either stay alive or protect it's home or progeny. That desperation is sort of itself a kind of superpower. Something that forces out all of the advantages and skills a human has when faced with seemingly insurmountable odds, something that a lot of supernatural creatures either don't need to worry about as much or grow distant from as their power rises (with a few exception from even more far removed monsters from humanity like the Strix, Idigam, and True Fae.)

[RickmanUK]

Really the only main reason Humans are "On Top" in CofD.... Is because of Numbers and the fact the ones that are aware of the Supernatural Are complete Bastards when it comes to fighting. Desperation leads to monstrosity of it's own.... The reasons for the Masquerade and the like are simply because it's easier to avoid the direct conflict with the Humans then to fight them, the end result of any major conflict is to many Deaths. (Unless that is the goal.. then Rock on)

[Elfive]

Any open conflict with humans would drag in the other supernaturals, and they all know this.

[Nyrufa]

Any open conflict with humans would drag in the other supernaturals, and they all know this.

True. If one species comes out to the world, then they ALL come out to the world. Which is why nobody's had the balls to try it, yet.


They don't want to be the scapegoat for when shit hits the fan.

[Nyrufa]

Alright, I love Beast and supernaturals just like everyone else here. But don't get too cocky.

I believe Ameraaaaaa's point was that there's a very good reason why Humans are feared by literally all other supernatural splats: They frustratingly adapt to their situations, and when determined are capable of accomplishing feats that would be normally improbable. I know earlier in the discussion their intelligence and technology was pretty much openly dismissed in favor of supernatural resilience and powers, and that's bogus because bombs count as technology and are a byproduct of human intelligence. And all supernatural splats will either die from explosions, or be fucked up in ways that they wish they would have died. Just like anything else caught in an explosion.

Point Number 1 - That's basically the message that Alucard (Hellsing Ultimate) believes in. The reason why humans are so great is because they are weak, and yet they somehow manage to defeat opponents leagues above their abilities through determination and adaptability. The monsters fail because they're too dependent on their vaunted powers and forget how to survive without them.


Point Number 2 - Nobody (or at least not me) was discrediting human technology and adaptability. What I was arguing was the fact that all of these other splats have the same capability in regards to human technology. In fact, Mages are even superior in that regard, since they're the ones who figured out how the universe works. Sure, a human could drop a bomb on a supernatural population. But guess what? A supernatural could also drop a bomb on a human population.



In almost every horror monster genre, you'll see the proudly toted message that human ingenuity and willpower can save the day in the face of overwhelming evil. But what they always fail to think about is what happens when that overwhelming evil is just as smart, just as adaptable, and possesses the combat effectiveness of an entire squad of soldiers. All of the sudden that human ingenuity is looking pretty shit when you've got what equates to super soldiers utilizing the same tactics against us.

And what makes you think the monsters aren't desperate to survive? If they believed themselves to be unstoppable juggernauts, then they wouldn't have any reason to hide in the shadows. No, they know they're at a disadvantage, and they've taken precautions to circumnavigate this issue. They blend into human society, adapt its resources for their own use and manipulate their governments from behind the scenes while keeping the unwashed masses blissfully unaware of their own existence.


Overwhelming numbers, that is the only thing humans have going for them in the CoD. And most of the splats seem to agree this is the case. Or at least that's the explanation I got reading through their books on why they don't just conquer the world.

[Ameraaaaaa]

2 things
1 most of the time supernaturals have a hard time getting im high position of power vampire sleep doing the day werewolf are ticking time bombs Don't even think of Promethean mummys sleep even more then vampire
demen mage beast and changing are the only ones that can take position of power
so how do they get bomb
2numbers are still an advantage hell maybe We're better because of breeding so much