[w/Princess] Odd Friends-Don't Mess with a Princess and Her Dragon

[Mangaholic13]

At any rate. Back to Beast/Princess relations. Princess likes to do crossover things with Embassies ... so what might an Embassy to the Dark Mother look like? I think it's possible, in Princess terms, because the Dark Mother is basically an abstract concept of Threats You Must Fear And Avoid that can be separated from the corruptive, entropic Darkness. Ideas that have occurred to me are the monstergirl trope and taking the whole "lessons through fear" business and running with it.

Yeah, that does sound interesting! Maybe it could be called "Embassy to the Grim" with an informal name for the members of Shepherds (As in Dark Shepherds)

[Mangaholic13]

Going back to my earlier comment about Beasts in Alhambra, I do think they'd have more social latitude than the average citizen of the City Under Siege... (And I just realized the associations one could make between Alhambra and Rapture, the City Under the Sea). They'd also be the ones most advocating reconquering the Rebellious Providences, since they'd have more freedom there.

Like I also said, the Queen of Tears would probably use them either as recruiters (using their fear inducing powers to convince people that Alhambra is the only place safe) or as ambassadors to the World of Darkness's other monstrous denizens (or infiltrators...)


Also, thanks to a earlier post by King of Ravens, I have this glorious image in my head of a Stormite dumping Hollywood Acid over a tainted building and leaving behind a "For Sale" sign as she leaves, only for a Beast to immediately step out of the shadows a 'yoink' the sign up.

[Sith_Happens]

At any rate. Back to Beast/Princess relations. Princess likes to do crossover things with Embassies ... so what might an Embassy to the Dark Mother look like? I think it's possible, in Princess terms, because the Dark Mother is basically an abstract concept of Threats You Must Fear And Avoid that can be separated from the corruptive, entropic Darkness. Ideas that have occurred to me are the monstergirl trope and taking the whole "lessons through fear" business and running with it.

I think it would work a lot better as a general Embassy to Fear with at most a few nods to Beast, similarly to the Embassy to Stories.

[Mangaholic13]

Also, had a thought recently: if a Beast travels into Dreamland and a Warden tries to use the Gale on it, what happens? Does it have a chance to work? Does it fail? Does the Horror bite the Warden's head off for daring to try and rewrite it's Legend?

[Dusksage]

That also brings up another interesting point. How does the Begotten perceive the Dreamland? Is it just another part of the Bright Dream? Or is it like how Mage's and Beast's perceptions of the Astral Realm are different despite being one and the same? And what about the Nobility and the Primordial Dream?

As for the original question, a personal head cannon of mine since reading the BPG is that Wardens are Larval Horrors who get lost in Mists and wind up being drawn to the Light until they gestate into predators of false hope and escapism. In that sense, the Horror would probably react to the Gale as if an Unfettered or other Sibling tried to move in on it's territory. And if reversed, likewise for the Warden.

[Mangaholic13]

That also brings up another interesting point. How does the Begotten perceive the Dreamland? Is it just another part of the Bright Dream? Or is it like how Mage's and Beast's perceptions of the Astral Realm are different despite being one and the same? And what about the Nobility and the Primordial Dream?

I go by the Changeling book Dancers in Dusk, in which it's explained that every mental plane is just how a different splat views it through the lens of their powers. Mages see the Astral, Changelings see the Skien, Beasts see the Primordial Dream. At least, that's how I thought it was. Then again, Changeling the Lost was what got me into Dream-based magic and abilities...

Though your idea, DS, is rather interesting. My personal opinion though: Beast's Horror goes nuts and bites the Warden's head off.

[Dusksage]

I mean, isn't the Horror's default response to most thing to go nuts and bite off heads?

[Mangaholic13]

I mean, isn't the Horror's default response to most thing to go nuts and bite off heads?

True, though in this case, it would spit the head out instead of swallowing.

[ArcaneArts]

That also brings up another interesting point. How does the Begotten perceive the Dreamland? Is it just another part of the Bright Dream? Or is it like how Mage's and Beast's perceptions of the Astral Realm are different despite being one and the same? And what about the Nobility and the Primordial Dream?

As for the original question, a personal head cannon of mine since reading the BPG is that Wardens are Larval Horrors who get lost in Mists and wind up being drawn to the Light until they gestate into predators of false hope and escapism. In that sense, the Horror would probably react to the Gale as if an Unfettered or other Sibling tried to move in on it's territory. And if reversed, likewise for the Warden.

Given that's it's been a while since I've read Princess and I am avoiding it because project reasons(not the one in my signature, go back it)-it's probably appear as regions in the Bright Dream unless someone wants to suggest that the Light is something that would appear in The Mother's Land-in which case, it becomes a strange otherworld-midground that somehow does not cross through the Mother's Cave(/metaphor for language), or perhaps form their own similar gate. The Ruins of the Time Before would be oddly bright things in either world, either way, worn and broken as they are.

Also agree on the Wardens.

[Sith_Happens]

Having read assorted portions of the Player's Guide so far, Whispers and detective-style Seekers are practically made to be BFFs. I also have the hilarious image in my head of Enablers "tempting" creatures of Darkness to do good and/or Ravens and Furies to be reasonable.

That also brings up another interesting point. How does the Begotten perceive the Dreamland? Is it just another part of the Bright Dream? Or is it like how Mage's and Beast's perceptions of the Astral Realm are different despite being one and the same? And what about the Nobility and the Primordial Dream?

The bolded. Take the difference between how Beasts and Mages see and travel the Primordial Dream, replace "Beasts" and "Primordial Dream" with "Nobles" and "Bright Dream," and that's what the Dreamlands are. I think.

[ArcaneArts]

Having read assorted portions of the Player's Guide so far, Whispers and detective-style Seekers are practically made to be BFFs. I also have the hilarious image in my head of Enablers "tempting" creatures of Darkness to do good and/or Ravens and Furies to be reasonable.



The bolded. Take the difference between how Beasts and Mages see and travel the Primordial Dream, replace "Beasts" and "Primordial Dream" with "Nobles" and "Bright Dream," and that's what the Dreamlands are. I think.

Truth dis.

[SdeSpencer]

I also have the hilarious image in my head of Enablers "tempting" creatures of Darkness to do good and/or Ravens and Furies to be reasonable.

"come on dont you want to break the rules and help people"

[Deinos]

But Beast is not that game. To be that game it would need, at minimum, a tension encoded in the mechanics between Legend and Life, and a clear sense that magical power comes at the expense of social position - which the other CofD games do by loading disadvantages onto a high power stat and a low Integrity-equivalent, and which Beast deliberately doesn't do at all.

Actually, I find this to be one of the greatest strengths of Beast and one of the greatest weaknesses of most other splats -- games about monsters that punish you for being monsters.

For your, say, Beast/Demon characters being good, or any monster PC in any (non WoD) gameline, you already have all the reward you possibly need; a warm fuzzy feeling and a self satisfied smugness.

But most creatures besides them basically are all *strongly encouraged* to avoid being monsters. For your character being bad, you are crippled and likely hunted. We really didn't need yet another game where fighting against your monstrous nature, instead of being a subversion, is mandatory.

As far as beasts vs princesses, whisper and prey, without subversion, fit virtually any group, and are essentially normal paranormal investigator or monster hunter protagonist MO. In the majority of chronicles, the high satiety meals (also somewhat for power) include most supernatural antagonists, and bullying humans is usually both an annoying diversion OOC and less practical IC.

I also don't think having a beast adapt their hunger to fit human morality is going against BtP's themes at all; you are a (soulless) human consciousness restraining an inhuman monstrosity. On the other hand, as all beasts can simply sate their horror and let it go to sleep to lead a normal life; a beast can never say "this isn't my fault, its who I am" -- if their hungers are that horrible and they can't adapt it, they're not like vampires or whatever who have to feed (though as someone who donates plasma regularly I find the idea that a vampire's diet is necessary harmful to be hysterical). They are complete moral agents that have total freedom to be "good" or "bad" and have every reason to choose either extreme or neither.

[TerrorCooper]

I'd think a Princess of the Storm would be more likely to kill any Beasts on sight, assuming that they're just Creatures of Darkness; though, I guess they might mistake a Beast that has kinship with a Werwolf for a potential ally.

Nobles, especially those of the Court of Storms, have Darkness detecting powers, so its unlikely that they'll mistake a Beast for a Darkened or Darkspawn.

I also think a Beast would want little to do with Brats. Brats probably make Beasts of the psychotic, glory-seeking kind of Hero.

Eeeeyup. another possibility (besides the ones suggested by The Kings Raven) is that the Children could see Brats as yet more targets for Lessons (namely that Everything has a cost, You sometimes have to compromise for the sake of your Ideals and/or others and so on).

Though, I wonder how Beasts and Tears would get along... Does Alhambra have Begotten? And are they "better" than other Begotten?

Typical Tears Arrogance and Denial.

Also, I have this glorious thought of a Beast Stereotype for Princesses:

Makara on Princesses: What? No, I'm not gonna do that with my tentacles! Why is that the first thing you think? Get your head out of the gutter!

Hmmmmmm............

Also, Pfhahhahahahhhaaa! Though any of the Makara who're aware of Hentai (TO EVERYONE READING THIS: if you're not going through Puberty, or have not already gone through it, DON'TASK!) would be at least half-expecting such a reaction.

And personally, I'd house-rule out Beasts being able to use Family Dinner with Princess. Otherwise, it does indeed diminish the role and important of Hunger in a story featuring Beasts.

Yeah, probably a good idea, though I myself would add in a drawback, twist or something like that to represent how different Nobles can be in a lot of ways from other Supernaturals.

On this topic, how would the other Radiant Courts react to Beasts? And how would Beasts react to the various Courts. I feel like there is a pretty good idea how relations between Beasts and Twilight Courts might go:

Mirrors: Want Beasts to do what they tell them. Beasts think, "Oh great, a self-absorbed Hero with magic powers." (NOTE: VERY GENERALIZATION, AND MY OPINION, PROVIDING PLENTY OF SALT).
Storms: Either help them destroy the Darkness or be destroyed. Beasts think, "Oh no, a Ax-Crazy Hero with magic powers!" (AGAIN HERE IS YOUR SALT, IT IS ALL NATURAL).
Tears: "Our Beasts do it better." "How?" "Because they're from Alhambra." "Do you accept any kind of counter argument?" "No, because we don't accept fictional arguments." "Oh great..." (I HOPE THE SALT HASN'T HURT ANYONE'S HEART).

Pretty accurate, if you ask me.

So, what do other people think? KingsRaven, MB, anybody?

I'm most certainly interested, and you've got some gears a' turning and wheels a' spinnin' in this mad ole' skull o' mine!

Actually, going back to lessons and kinship nightmares, I had a few ideas for other courts:

Clubs: That sometimes, conflict is necessary
Diamonds: Not all problems can be solved with knowledge. There Are Things Man Was Never Meant To Know!
Hearts: Some rules are made to be broken.
Spades: There are things you can't laugh off. Dude, Not Funny!
Swords: Sometimes, love isn't enough. Failure Is The Only Option

Storms: Hatred cuts both ways. You Are What You Hate.
Mirrors: You can't go it alone. You Ain't So Special.

Humanity: You can't make everything conform to your vision.

Also, here's something I thought might be interesting: We know what stereotypes Nobles have for Beasts, but what stereotypes do Beasts have for Nobles? Here's some ideas...

Anakim: Want to see who can burn the longest?

Eshmaki: Would you mind turning that down a bit? Some of us happen to prefer the dark.
Makara: Watch your mouth! Some of my best friends are squids!
Namtaru: Your powers make you beautiful, and tell you how rotten everyone else is... Don't know if I envy or pity you.
Ugallu: I wonder, if I fly close to you, would I burn up?

My own take on Beasts looking at with Princesses:

Anakim: You show them where they can go. I'll pick you both up when you fall.
Eshmaki: You leave the light on for them, give them a place to go. I'll make sure they're strong enough to get home at night.
Makara: You call it love, but does he make you breathless? Does he leave you clawing for purchase, unable to know where up is? It's not love unless it's the deep end, dear.
Also Makara: No, seriously, that's not what my tentacles are for.
Namtaru: You fight for truth, but have trouble with leaking wounds. I'll try to be gentle.
Ugallu: You shine a light and I pull back the curtains. The winner is sense overload.

All 10 of these are awesome! But what about Inguma and Talassi?

Thinking about Beasts and Princesses being friends is interesting to say the least. Partially because I get this mental image of a shaky friendship at first where the Beast and Princess try to understand things from each others point of view, but also understand that they can't change who they are without dire consequences.

I also like the possibility of a Noble and a Beast falling in love.

But mostly for the mental image of the Princess on the losing end of a fight about to get killed or worse and suddenly there's the Beast shielding them from the Darkness.

"So you feed on fear huh? Cute, now let me show you what true fear looks like."

The follow-up image of said Darkspawn subsequently trying to get the Beast to pull a Face-Heel Turn, only for the Beast to start counting lines like Freeza from DBZ Abridged out of a sense of bored, semi-detached humour and infuriating them to no end is one I find incredibly amusing.

People were too distracted by my dong and getting security to pay critical attention to my discourse. PLus, if you can deliver a speech naked, you ain't got nothing to worry about in clothes.

Too true, and I'm NOT gonna ask about that particular Noodle Incident.

[ArcaneArts]

TWO. YEARS. OLD. AND THEN SOME.

WHY.