New Family: Irkalla, Nightmare of the End

[Master Aquatosic]

Do each of the Families have a sort of archetypal Hunger? Because if that's a thing, I would say that, while they're not limited to it, Ravagers are the best fit. Nothing says "everything ends" like someone actually destroying the things you love.

[Vent0]

Don't mind that, it was one of my attempts at making jokes that don't come across well in written form. .

I'm actually glad you came up with that idea, shows that some of what I had in mind for the Family when it comes to Hungers does get across. I'll see if I manage to find another good example of Irkalla Collector, since there's no such thing as too many ideas. If that does not happen, I'll use it.

I could see another Irkalla Collector that collects pink slips (firing notices), or one that destroys investment portfolios/stocks (for a Ravager). Or one hanging out at a casino, drinking up that moment when a gambler's luck turns against them.

Endings without being Overwhelming, Dark, or Revolting. Just, from hindsight, Inevitable.

[Cinder]

Why? Go ahead and use it.

Don't mind that, it was one of my attempts at making jokes that don't come across well in written form. .

I'm actually glad you came up with that idea, shows that some of what I had in mind for the Family when it comes to Hungers does get across. I'll see if I manage to find another good example of Irkalla Collector, since there's no such thing as too many ideas. If that does not happen, I'll use it.

[Vent0]

That was one of my examples of my Hunger draft, dammit. Now I gotta find a new one : P

Why? Go ahead and use it.

[LostLight]

Well, Irkalla is indeed was the Babylonian version of Kur, and Kur was both a place and a dragon, and in the new edition the Underworld as whole may be a living (dead? undead?), thinking being which exist to devour all that is- so yeah, you do have the excuse to use such a cool name. And I get it- I wrote an whole conspiracy based on the fact that "Irkalla" has a nice ring to it.

[Cinder]

Well, that new Family does look really nice! The only thing which kinda sting my eye is that they are named after the a world instead of some mythical monster, but I can accept it considering what they represent. Good job

I really, really liked the sound of the name and the fact it's "the place of no return", which fits perfectly. Then, I found some mentions of the name of the underworld also being a possible alias for Kur, a primordial dragon who was among my list of candidates for the Family name or another name for Ereshkigal, and that flimsy excuse was enough for me to go for it.

But I admit it's more due to me finding it cool than anything

[LostLight]

Well, that new Family does look really nice! The only thing which kinda sting my eye is that they are named after the a world instead of some mythical monster, but I can accept it considering what they represent. Good job

[Cinder]

For a Irkalla Collector, I could see them hoarding wedding rings... from divorcees and widow/ers.

That was one of my examples of my Hunger draft, dammit. Now I gotta find a new one : P

[Vent0]

Alright, I was thinking about giving a couple example of Irkalla for each Hunger, so this provides me a better reason to do so.

I might not be able to write for a little, but in the meantime the "Lives" examples up there are respectively a Tyrant, a Collector, a Nemesis and a Whisper. Ravagers and Predators are admittedly easy to do with the Irkalla, so I intentionally went for others.

Huh. I felt the second Lives example was more Ravager, for destroying to concept of "I'm safe" or "that can happen to me" in their audience.

For a Irkalla Collector, I could see them hoarding wedding rings... from divorcees and widow/ers.

[Mad_Maudlin]

I was thinking that an Irkalla Enabler might take one of two tracks:

1. YOLO! Live in the moment! Who cares about doing the right thing, we're all gonna die anyway, scruples are meaningless before the oncoming void! (But of course, living like it's your last day on earth catches up to you if it's not actually your last day....)

2. Fortune favors the bold, my friend. Well-behaved women rarely make history. You stay within the lines and you'll eventually die alone and forgotten and insignificant. But bend just one little rule and you can become powerful, famous, you can (literally or figuratively) live forever...just gotta be willing to cross that one line.... (But of course, death gets everyone in the end, and in trying to cheat it the victim ends up worse off than they started.)

[Cinder]

Alright, I was thinking about giving a couple example of Irkalla for each Hunger, so this provides me a better reason to do so.

I might not be able to write for a little, but in the meantime the "Lives" examples up there are respectively a Tyrant, a Collector, a Nemesis and a Whisper. Ravagers and Predators are admittedly easy to do with the Irkalla, so I intentionally went for others.

[21C Hermit]

Well, the Tarot does say that an End is in itself a transition, rather than a true finality...

But seconding Heavy Arms for Hungers. A more solid image always helps its concept.

[Heavy Arms]

I absolutely understand what you're saying about the general concept... I'm still having trouble with, " As a rule of thumb, if the end, oblivion, doom, the point of no return, the dissolution from which there's no turning back are not not the primary focus of the Beast, other Families have better odds of serving the concept better."
this.

Mostly because it feels like that's more Ravager/Hunger than Family. It might help me (or anyone else thinking what I am) to have some of the Irkalla/Hunger breakdowns we saw in the PG. What does an Irkalla Ravager look like compared to a Anakim Ravager? What does an Irkalla Collector... hoard that resonates with endings that still works for feeding?

I think part of it to me is that the Families - and pardon the word play - are usually phrased as journeys, not endings. They're sensations people experience, with the Hungers being how the Horror wants them to resolve.

A person floats on the ocean and is suddenly aware of the vast depths below them. Does a leviathan come up and toss them about until they recognize that they're a weak land mammal in the domain of monsters? Or does a sleek predator slip up and rip off a leg to add to its collection of limbs taken from people venturing out into the depths? Etc.

For the Irkalla... I struggle with that. The finality of the concept makes it hard for me to picture different approaches to the fundamental experience.

[Cinder]

I really like the writing on this.

I am concerned a bit with it being used in play though. The fear of death seems either something that needs to be narrow, but then very limited on what you can do with it in play, or very broad, where it seems hard for it to feel like it isn't gobbling up the narrative space of the other Families in your game.

Ultimately... what fear isn't a fear of the end? Yeah, no neat boxes, and the combination of Family and Hunger should result in plenty of overlap in concept. I'm just not sure how I'd run the Irkalla without going too far to the point where anything could be an Irkalla instead of there being fuzzy edges.

Thanks!

We're in a disagreement over the fact that all fears are ultimately fears of the end but, other than that, I do get what you're saying. Let's see I manage to untie that knot for everyone.

I opened up the Irkalla's fear from "death" to "endings" for the same reason the Makara are not only water monsters. As you mention, it would be really narrow and limit the experience in game, so I gave the Family more depth for that very reason. But, to address the elephant in the room, many Irkalla would be death-themed just as many Makara are water-themed. It's part of the Family's core aesthetics and both a blessing and a curse when it comes to character creation.

Overlap is inevitable when speaking of Beast and Families, but I do feel that Irkalla find their real own place when they speak of the nightmare of endings and nothing else (because they don't need to). Sure, the Horrors of other Families might make one go "this thing is powerful/hidden in the darkness/lurking in the depths/revolting/leaving me exposed/alien/keeping me trapped and might easily be the end of me", but an Irkalla triggers a "this thing will be the end of me or of an aspect of my life" reaction. They skip a passage and go straight (pun intended) to the end. As a rule of thumb, if the end, oblivion, doom, the point of no return, the dissolution from which there's no turning back are not not the primary focus of the Beast, other Families have better odds of serving the concept better.

Conceptually, Irkalla come from a place between Anakim, Eshmaki and Namtaru, so I'm not gonna deny they do cover space other Families also cover. Again, I'd resort to think about what's more instinctively scary about the Beast in order to decide. Using mythological examples of awesome goddesses, Izanami is a death goddess but her myth always underlines how revolting Izanagi found her once he found her living corpse in Yomi. She can be an Irkalla, but Namtaru works better. Ereshkigal, on the other hand, always remarks how there's no turning back from her realm and, should it open, it will be the end for everyone. She's powerful, lives in darkness and she's terrifying to look at, but her core is the fear of an inescapable end. In other words, great Irkalla material.

(The name Irkalla comes in fact from Ereshkigal myths, because she's cool and I love her)

The Irkalla are, to make a bit of patchwork, a mixture between Sidereal's Chosen of Endings and Abyssals with a bit of Wraith's Oblivion thrown in for good measure, all processed through the beautiful nightmarish lenses of Beast and spit out as horrors.

I think that might help a bit? Feel free to discuss some more or raise other objections: those were absolutely legitimate and address an actual problem this Family could bring to the table

[Heavy Arms]

I really like the writing on this.

I am concerned a bit with it being used in play though. The fear of death seems either something that needs to be narrow, but then very limited on what you can do with it in play, or very broad, where it seems hard for it to feel like it isn't gobbling up the narrative space of the other Families in your game.

Ultimately... what fear isn't a fear of the end? Yeah, no neat boxes, and the combination of Family and Hunger should result in plenty of overlap in concept. I'm just not sure how I'd run the Irkalla without going too far to the point where anything could be an Irkalla instead of there being fuzzy edges.