Need help in seeing the Appeal of being a Beast.

[Korogra]

So a couple of times a year I get it in my head that I am going to finally run and/or play Beast, but then every time I read the book in order to properly build a character or create a chronicle for it.. I rapidly lose interest and put the book away. I’ve never been able to find anything about the Children as people or as monsters to be remotely appealing or sympathetic, no matter how many times I try to give it a fair shake or read the book from cover to cover.

Nearly the entire thing from the smug and unwarranted superiority complex that all Beasts have to their superfluous and pointless goal of teaching humanity what it already has long since learned and mastered/incomprehensible and contradictory explanations on how one can fulfill one’s Hunger, to the hypocrisy they exhibit when it comes to Heroes and how they are utterly horrible bad bullies who just need to leave Beasts alone - all of it just makes me look at them and go “ No, fuck you. I’m not buying this special snowflake otherkin breakfast cereal you’re trying to sell me.”

Which really, really sucks. Some things about the game are amazing like the Lair, Nightmares and Atavisms, and Kinship stuff ( for the most part, their hatred for Demons is both retarded and irrelevant , the whole “ They Aren’t of the Dark Mother” bullshit was somewhat invalidated by the Inguma, who represent a completely rational and human constructed fear that was not a facet of the primordial unknown) and I really like them... but everything else is abrasive like sand paper on road rash.


Long story short, can you guys help me see the appeal of playing or running Beast? I’d like to hear what your experiences are, maybe that might give me a fresh perspective..

[Malus]

Sounds like you need to hack the game if you want it to appeal to you.

[Korogra]

Sounds like you need to hack the game if you want it to appeal to you.

That would require me to rewrite the entire book into something that isn’t wallowing in its own smug juices. Something where the protagonists and antagonists are multifaceted.

More seriously though, I do want to try it... but I need an unbiased opinion on what makes it worth playing.

[nofather]

I think your posts are so ironic that it might be some sort of artistic statement.

In the case that they aren't, have you thought about just playing a Beast who doesn't act like what you think Beasts normally act like? It shouldn't be that stretch of the imagination, we've had people wanting to play 'nice' vampires and mages, werewolves who are friendly to spirits, hunters who only hunt 'bad guys.' Just figure out what you think would be a better personality for a Beast and play that.

[Malus]

AFAIK, it appeals a lot to people who aren't psychologically homogeneous with the general population. I remember an eloquent post from someone who claimed to have intrusive thoughts and it was a brilliant outlet for catharsis. But that's just the one example that jumps to me. I have the corebook, I followed the development, but never got to play it. If I did, I would only do so on it's crossover premise, likely downplaying the holier-than-thou approach Beasts have with other supernaturals on account of "being the big brothers".

I wouldn't even try at explaining why or how kinship works. Just something in the beast makes it appealing to other monsters, somehow. That would be something that could be explored, rather than spouted about in a quasi-religious fashion.

[Korogra]

I think your posts are so ironic that it might be some sort of artistic statement.

In the case that they aren't, have you thought about just playing a Beast who doesn't act like what you think Beasts normally act like? It shouldn't be that stretch of the imagination, we've had people wanting to play 'nice' vampires and mages, werewolves who are friendly to spirits, hunters who only hunt 'bad guys.' Just figure out what you think would be a better personality for a Beast and play that.

If stating my thoughts on the game as I have come to interperet it due to never having another person to actually discus the game with before as well as asking for advice is irony, then sure it’s ironic... even if I have no idea why.

And I have, though Beast likes to discourage that even more than the other lines from how I understand Satiety to work. Due to it being in constant flux, you have to perform a balancing act that just isn’t compatible with some forms of play due to the needs of the Horror. One can’t be very “Nice” if they want to keep their Satiety at a reasonable level. That’s the biggest mechanical hurdle for me.

[Florin]

A couple points. Encounters with Demons often in in violence, especially when a Beast sees through a Demon's Cover. That isn't necessarily because Beasts hate Demons. (I can't actually find a reference to hatred, just that they're not kin.) A Demon would be pretty likely to attempt to kill anything that penetrated its disguises. They're all about keeping hidden from the God Machine. Having someone detect them is going to disturb them, and violence is a likely response.

One of the example lessons in the book is humility. You'd be very hard pressed to convince me that Humanity has learned humility. We're not perfect as a race, so I'm sure you can think of at least one other lesson we need to learn and haven't yet. Use that. More fun can happen when two different Beasts have opposing views on what Humanity should learn. For example, on Beast wants to teach humans to work together more and take care of each other while another Beast wants to teach them to be more independent and individualistic.

[Charlaquin]

their hatred for Demons is both retarded and irrelevant

That word is a slur, do not use it pejoratively.

Also as general advice, keep in mind that respect is rule 1, 2, and 3 here. You don’t have to like Beast, you’re welcome to critique it, but try to avoid being insulting to people who do like it.

[Korogra]

AFAIK, it appeals a lot to people who aren't psychologically homogeneous with the general population. I remember an eloquent post from someone who claimed to have intrusive thoughts and it was a brilliant outlet for catharsis. But that's just the one example that jumps to me. I have the corebook, I followed the development, but never got to play it. If I did, I would only do so on it's crossover premise, likely downplaying the holier-than-thou approach Beasts have with other supernaturals on account of "being the big brothers".

I wouldn't even try at explaining why or how kinship works. Just something in the beast makes it appealing to other monsters, somehow. That would be something that could be explored, rather than spouted about in a quasi-religious fashion.

Then that may be the only way I’d ever play it, as part of a crossover. It’s not that I’m confused by Kinship, I find it interesting. I just have trouble reconciling the other, rather irritating facets of the game.

[Primordial newcomer]

Plus the players guide does not have a holier than thou approach to it. And kinship is because they are not hostile to most others and actually take traits of them over time

[Cinder]

Alright, for starters, trying to adjust the tone and keep the most caustic words to yourself might help in getting useful replies. Like, I kinda know you, Korogra. I do think you're better than this.

Second. I seriously think, judging from what you wrote, that you keep approaching the book with a perspective that's quite loaded (to say the least), considering that you say to have read it many times from cover to cover. I know it's never an easy thing to do, but try to let go that a bit, just for a while.

Third, in case giving the forums an eye to and see why the community is having the a great time and the game's is at its best since release is too dispersive, I'll point you to the good ol' Beast's Appreciation Thread. It's ancient and lots of cool people with cool ideas and love for Beast have appeared since its life cycle ended, but still valuable

Other than that, the game's worth and what it offers has been discussed lately more than ever, with tons of different people making excellent points and threads around the whole subforum, so it's really is that easy to find other perspectives around here.

As for what I can offer myself, there's a link in my signature that leads to some Beast threads I made. I don't have the arrogance to believe they're the solution you're looking for, but they do offer my point of view. The essay series, in particular, was written with showing Beast's potential as one of its goals. It's not up to me to judge if I achieved that goal, but those are what I got.

Having said that, I'm out. I opened the thread with the best intentions, but I don't have the strength to join this old dance if that's how the music is playing. Did that too many times. Sorry and good luck.

[Korogra]

And noted Charlaquin, my apologies.

[Korogra]

Alright, for starters, trying to adjust the tone and keep the most caustic words to yourself might help in getting useful replies. Like, I kinda know you, Korogra. I do think you're better than this.

Second. I seriously think, judging from what you wrote, that you keep approaching the book with a perspective that's quite loaded (to say the least), considering that you say to have read it many times from cover to cover. I know it's never an easy thing to do, but try to let go that a bit, just for a while.

Third, in case giving the forums an eye to and see why the community is having the a great time and the game's is at its best since release is too dispersive, I'll point you to the good ol' http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/beast-the-primordial-aa/1003638-beast-s-appreciation-thread"]Beast's Appreciation Thread[/URL]. It's ancient and lots of cool people with cool ideas and love for Beast have appeared since its life cycle ended, but still valuable

Other than that, the game's worth and what it offers has been discussed lately more than ever, with tons of different people making excellent points and threads around the whole subforum, so it's really is that easy to find other perspectives around here.

As for what I can offer myself, there's a link in my signature that leads to some Beast threads I made. I don't have the arrogance to believe they're the solution you're looking for, but they do offer my point of view. The essay series, in particular, was written with showing Beast's potential as one of its goals. It's not up to me to judge if I achieved that goal, but those are what I got.

Having said that, I'm out. I opened the thread with the best intentions, but I don't have the strength needed to join this old dance if that's how the music is playing. Sorry and good luck.

Thank you and I appreciate your input. That said, I will take a look at it, see if it jogs anything. I’ll freely admit that I do not see why people have so much fun with it, but then again I’m rarely on this particular forum. We’ll see if my thoughts change later on.

[Korogra]

That word is a slur, do not use it pejoratively.

Also as general advice, keep in mind that respect is rule 1, 2, and 3 here. You don’t have to like Beast, you’re welcome to critique it, but try to avoid being insulting to people who do like it.

I wasn’t able to reply to this at first, and I do apologize for the word. However I would like to clarify one thing. When I used it, I was not referring to any actual person or group of people. I at no point referred to such and such player or writer with that word, merely stated that I thought that it was backwards and idiotic for a fictional creature to be so hostile to another fictional creature when there is not a lot of in universe context to justify it. No one who likes the game was attacked. But again I do apologize for using it, and it will not happen again, it was said out of personal frustration and was inappropriate.

[Charlaquin]

I wasn’t able to reply to this at first, and I do apologize for the word. However I would like to clarify one thing. When I used it, I was not referring to any actual person or group of people. I at no point referred to such and such player or writer with that word, merely stated that I thought that it was backwards and idiotic for a fictional creature to be so hostile to another fictional creature when there is not a lot of in universe context to justify it. No one who likes the game was attacked. But again I do apologize for using it, and it will not happen again, it was said out of personal frustration and was inappropriate.

The apology is appreciated. To clarify, I didn’t mean that your use of the slur was insulting to people who liked the game. That was a separate issue from the general abrasiveness of the comment. And to further clarify, being abrasive isn’t against the rules per se, I was just recommending that you make sure you keep your critique respectful. There’s a big difference between “I find the voice Beast is written in unappealing” and “the writing is wallowing in its own smug juices,” for example. Again, you don’t have to like Beast, and you’re welcome to critique it, but maybe consider if someone said the same thing of game you do like, if you would describe that critique as respectful of your preferences.