The Ugallu and The Invincible

[Primordial newcomer]

Yep. Heroes aren't dangerous because they can punch your face really hard, it's that they very rapidly dismantle all that work you put into trying to belong to a community (whether as a beneficent trial-maker or as the asshat monster what eats all challengers and therefore sit on top of the community.)

Which in terms of adapting the story of Heroes and monsters, sounds better. The Heroes are of myth, after all, are usually set up as the brave underdogs looking to overthrow the monster (and therefore, it's enforced role) while also showing that humanity doesn't need em anymore. Much better than simply being some badass who just beats you up without attracting a crowd

[Adrasalieth]

I release them when I get to them. Probably should hammer out Heroic Satiety.

Related, I have a tenative Forsworn set of names akin to the actual Family names, like Anakim, Eshmaki, Makara, the like. I'm not sold on them, per se-the principle was to find god/heroes/names that catch the idea or something adjacent in the same language as the original Family, and some of them are not quite the sound I would go for, but still. Let's see how y'all take to them.

The Daphna, The Victorious, Forsworn of Hopelessness
The Amiran*, The Enlightened, Forsworn of Darkness
The Balaram, The Plain, Forsworn of the Depths
The Ningizzida**, The Immortals, Forsworn of Revulsion
The Ishum***, the Invincible, Forsworn of Exposure
The Ehki, The Priests****, Forsworn of the Other
The Libertas, The Libertines****, Forsworn of Confinement

*Yes, I know the previous Fire Lineage of Promethean is also named the Amirani, but the best Georgian mythological figure to embody the idea of Enlightened Hero is their Prometheus figure, so I'm aiming at avoiding the confusion by dropping that last i and otherwise accepting that shit happens.
**I will also take the excuse to name them the Ishtari, but Ningizzida seems more appropriate for having actually gotten the root of life.
***Shockingly, Mesopotamians have a a lot of deities who serve the role of protection that could apply. I thought about one that specifically geared against demons (Sebutti), but Ishum had connotations that seemed very anti-Ugallu.
****Obviously subject to change if the writing hews for a better name, like the Enlightened and Invincible over the Bright and the Armored.

So Daphna = Greek, Amiran(i) = Georgia, Balaram = Hindu, Ningizzida = Sumero-Akkadian, Ishum = Sumerian.

Something we don't really have yet is Slavic. "Alkonost" or "Raróg" could be nice for the Libertine: both reflect the notion of ambiguity (human and avian, dangerous yet potentially beneficial to humanity) and kinship (they're all related with other supernatural winged creatures, like the Sirin, which to me would be the Begotten stand-in). Also, it involves flying as the dangerous and intoxicating freedom at the risk of fall, which differs from the Ugallu and links to the Talassii in the right way, IMO.

As for the priests, that would be where I'd go Latin and pick Penates, or maybe Egeria (or the even less known and intriguing Vegoia). But Sumer/Akkad is also very tempting, with the Apkallu and Uanna/Adapa.

Ultimately I know you'll pick something great based on your own written take, just musing aloud, so to speak.

[ArcaneArts]

Or, to put it another way, the default assumption is still that Heroes work like Strix and Huntsmen and the more insidious flavors of idigam, where the point is less for them to be a direct threat out the gate and more for them to have very easy access to powers that specifically mess with the vulnerabilities of the type of monster that you are, especially the psychosocial ones.

Yep. Heroes aren't dangerous because they can punch your face really hard, it's that they very rapidly dismantle all that work you put into trying to belong to a community (whether as a beneficent trial-maker or as the asshat monster what eats all challengers and therefore sit on top of the community.)

[Satchel]

So no. Heroic Lair, Satiety, and [REDACTED] are all meant to support from beneath, not directly empower them.

Or, to put it another way, the default assumption is still that Heroes work like Strix and Huntsmen and the more insidious flavors of idigam, where the point is less for them to be a direct threat out the gate and more for them to have very easy access to powers that specifically mess with the vulnerabilities of the type of monster that you are, especially the psychosocial ones.

[Nicolas Milioni]

Looks like i repeated myself,my bad.

[ArcaneArts]

interesting!

We chat more about in the Heroic Lair thread, if you wanted to go over all the logic.

I'd love to know,are Beasts still able to be based on any monster from any time and place? i'm pretty sure the answer is yes,but i thought asking would be a good idea just to be sure

Also see the Heroic Lair thread.

[Nicolas Milioni]

I'd love to know,are Beasts still able to be based on any monster from any time and place? i'm pretty sure the answer is yes,but i thought asking would be a good idea just to be sure

[Nicolas Milioni]

The general goal of the Forsworn design is to maintain their general player-character driven problem solving mentality, by which I mean I want them to maintain their tactics and method of approach is mostly informed by terrorists. The general vibe is that they'll isolate or otherwise strike at Beasts when they're alone and using group tactics against the one. As a general rule, the average idea is that they don't do 1x1 (and honestly, Chronicles is not a space where one designs under the assumption that 1x1, or that mano a mano is the way anything thinks or operates)-they're scary not because they're strong, but that their victory seems inevitable. So no. Heroic Lair, Satiety, and [REDACTED] are all meant to support from beneath, not directly empower them.

That said, High Lair Heroes probably could.

interesting!

[ArcaneArts]

Are Forsworn tough enough to beat a beast on 1x1?

The general goal of the Forsworn design is to maintain their general player-character driven problem solving mentality, by which I mean I want them to maintain their tactics and method of approach is mostly informed by terrorists. The general vibe is that they'll isolate or otherwise strike at Beasts when they're alone and using group tactics against the one. As a general rule, the average idea is that they don't do 1x1 (and honestly, Chronicles is not a space where one designs under the assumption that 1x1, or that mano a mano is the way anything thinks or operates)-they're scary not because they're strong, but that their victory seems inevitable. So no. Heroic Lair, Satiety, and [REDACTED] are all meant to support from beneath, not directly empower them.

That said, High Lair Heroes probably could.

[Nicolas Milioni]

I release them when I get to them. Probably should hammer out Heroic Satiety.

Related, I have a tenative Forsworn set of names akin to the actual Family names, like Anakim, Eshmaki, Makara, the like. I'm not sold on them, per se-the principle was to find god/heroes/names that catch the idea or something adjacent in the same language as the original Family, and some of them are not quite the sound I would go for, but still. Let's see how y'all take to them.

The Daphna, The Victorious, Forsworn of Hopelessness
The Amiran*, The Enlightened, Forsworn of Darkness
The Balaram, The Plain, Forsworn of the Depths
The Ningizzida**, The Immortals, Forsworn of Revulsion
The Ishum***, the Invincible, Forsworn of Exposure
The Ehki, The Priests****, Forsworn of the Other
The Libertas, The Libertines****, Forsworn of Confinement

*Yes, I know the previous Fire Lineage of Promethean is also named the Amirani, but the best Georgian mythological figure to embody the idea of Enlightened Hero is their Prometheus figure, so I'm aiming at avoiding the confusion by dropping that last i and otherwise accepting that shit happens.
**I will also take the excuse to name them the Ishtari, but Ningizzida seems more appropriate for having actually gotten the root of life.
***Shockingly, Mesopotamians have a a lot of deities who serve the role of protection that could apply. I thought about one that specifically geared against demons (Sebutti), but Ishum had connotations that seemed very anti-Ugallu.
****Obviously subject to change if the writing hews for a better name, like the Enlightened and Invincible over the Bright and the Armored.

Are Forsworn tough enough to beat a beast on 1x1?

[ArcaneArts]

I release them when I get to them. Probably should hammer out Heroic Satiety.

Related, I have a tenative Forsworn set of names akin to the actual Family names, like Anakim, Eshmaki, Makara, the like. I'm not sold on them, per se-the principle was to find god/heroes/names that catch the idea or something adjacent in the same language as the original Family, and some of them are not quite the sound I would go for, but still. Let's see how y'all take to them.

The Daphna, The Victorious, Forsworn of Hopelessness
The Amiran*, The Enlightened, Forsworn of Darkness
The Balaram, The Plain, Forsworn of the Depths
The Ningizzida**, The Immortals, Forsworn of Revulsion
The Ishum***, the Invincible, Forsworn of Exposure
The Ehki, The Priests****, Forsworn of the Other
The Libertas, The Libertines****, Forsworn of Confinement

*Yes, I know the previous Fire Lineage of Promethean is also named the Amirani, but the best Georgian mythological figure to embody the idea of Enlightened Hero is their Prometheus figure, so I'm aiming at avoiding the confusion by dropping that last i and otherwise accepting that shit happens.
**I will also take the excuse to name them the Ishtari, but Ningizzida seems more appropriate for having actually gotten the root of life.
***Shockingly, Mesopotamians have a a lot of deities who serve the role of protection that could apply. I thought about one that specifically geared against demons (Sebutti), but Ishum had connotations that seemed very anti-Ugallu.
****Obviously subject to change if the writing hews for a better name, like the Enlightened and Invincible over the Bright and the Armored.

[TerrorCooper]

Awesome! May I inquire as to when you'll release the parts about the Inguma and Talasii, those born from the essence of nightmares that focus upon the Other and Confinement respectively? And what names you have given them, aside from Priests and Libertines respectively?

Also, yes. Yes it has been a year. I've been patiently, and eagerly, awaiting this and its two follow-ups for that entire time.

[ArcaneArts]

For my part, maybe it's the Midwesterner in me, but despite the typical connotations of "exposure" my go-to imagery for the Ugallu is more thunderstorm-y.

Much less conducive to Heroic contrast-imagery, admittedly, but now I find myself wondering how the various types* of Forsworn approach the prospect of that old Pratchett-ism about standing on a hilltop in wet copper armor and yelling AGAB.

* Is there a generic term for the categories of Forsworn that I've just overlooked, or has that not been shared/devised yet?

I've mostly been using Forsworn as the equivalent of Families or Nightmares Of. In the endgame, it'd be various types of Heroes, but for now....I suppose Forsworn can be the overarching phrase and specifics can be things such as "Enemy of" or "Disavowed of"

As for that quote, I imagine they see it more like being Dresden flipping off gods and monsters and not realizing the demons' name is "I".

Of course, Dresden is a man who could do with understanding all that damn copper armor he's got on.

[Satchel]

Also, unrelated to that: Being raised in a desert, you might imagine sun and sandstorm were my main vectors for understanding Exposure. And in similar fashion, it's very Beast to find ways to mesh archaic images, forms and stories with modern forms of the same. Neon Gothic Bronze, as it were.

Probably more LED Gothic Bronze, but still.

For my part, maybe it's the Midwesterner in me, but despite the typical connotations of "exposure" my go-to imagery for the Ugallu is more thunderstorm-y.

Much less conducive to Heroic contrast-imagery, admittedly, but now I find myself wondering how the various types* of Forsworn approach the prospect of that old Pratchett-ism about standing on a hilltop in wet copper armor and yelling AGAB.

* Is there a generic term for the categories of Forsworn that I've just overlooked, or has that not been shared/devised yet?

[ArcaneArts]

There's a very obvious bit of Mummy metaphysics undergirding this writeup that is very good, but I'm still kind of reeling from the incorporation of That One Star Wars Meme, You Know The One, in the same way that I can't get over there being a The Room reference in Promethean 2e.

Which is to say this is solid work reminding me I should probably get a bigger jacket to hide in.

It's a decent way to describe the Law of Suffering, which did come in when I started applying death by exposure to the broader metaphors.

That said, I might make the argument that the Ugallu point the precedent for the Way of Will rather than will directly. THe Families on the whole provide the seven keys to unlock the chains that allow one to step beyond Suffering.

Also, unrelated to that: Being raised in a desert, you might imagine sun and sandstorm were my main vectors for understanding Exposure. And in similar fashion, it's very Beast to find ways to mesh archaic images, forms and stories with modern forms of the same. Neon Gothic Bronze, as it were.

Probably more LED Gothic Bronze, but still.