Heroes as Monster Tamers, Rules Ideas

[The young man in the cafe]

I've talked about the idea of heroes representing what TV tropes calls "Fluffy Tamers" and figure it could be done with the following tweaks to the rules for Hero traits, if anyone has any ideas on how I can improve it, let me know. This is just the basic stuff, I still have to come up with the actual collars and tamer gifts

• Tamer heroes have Life and Legend traits, just like the usual monster slayers. However, tamer heroes tend to have lives and legend that are somewhat more compatible, often having lives and legends having to do with nature, animals, horror movie fandom or being a general weirdo who isn't good with... ugh, people... and other wise the sort of person that would tame monster when every one else is trying to kill them. As a result, they tend to be a bit higher in integrity than most slayers that beasts encounter. But, low integrity tamers can be pretty awful to their collared beasts compared to even the most deluded slayers, so it balances out.
• Tamer heroes put "collars' on Beasts instead of anathema. At their most basic, collars are something a tamer hero can do to or offer a beast in order to get the beast to follow a command. Collars always appear as some sort of mark or binding on a beast's horror, with a tendency for lower integrity tamers to make more humiliating collars (A Minotaur horror collared by a high integrity tamer might have a nose ring that makes them look a bit more bad ass even as it marks them as "tamed" but the same Minotaur collared by a low integrity hero might be marked with a cow bell. Collars are persistent conditions that can be resolved either through action by the Beast, or by the tamer willingly "releasing" the beast
• Tamers have their own gifts which tend to center around making it easier to place collars on beasts, buffing beasts that they have placed collars on, or protecting their collared beasts from the usual slayer type heroes (this last one has led a few broods to let a tamer temporarily place collars on them to save them from a particularly dangerous slayer hero). Tamers earn new gifts by completing various "challenges", held in hidden places in the various hives of the world, with their collared beasts. Many of these challenges are administered by a strange mortal cult, or perhaps a group of related cults, of the dark mother and some say the dark mother placed these hidden temples as a means of making sure that not all heroes would go astray as civilization grew.
• Tamers and slayers really don't get each other, slayers think tamers are absolutely crazy, but would rather not anger them by attacking their "pets" (at least not in a way where the tamer finds out) and tamers think slayers are blind to the wonder in the scary things in life.
• Collared Beasts usually can't become an incarnate, but rumors abound of tamers who went full dark lord, as opposed to fluffy tamer, which changed the relationship enough where the tamer and beast became a weird sort of co-incarnates, a big bad guy and his equally big bad dragon, so to speak. The rumors also say that many of the protection from slayers type gifts stop working when this happens, or else change in function
• A collared Beast may or may not like the tamer that collared them, it all depends on the beast, the individual tamer and what they make the beast do for them. The collar doesn't force them to like their tamer.

More to come.

[knasser]

I'm too new to the system (still learning) to comment on the rules ideas, but conceptually it's horrifying. It's one thing for a player to contemplate being killed by some "hero". It's entirely a different layer to imagine they might become a neutered lapdog to some guy. The woodsman telling the big bad wolf he's going to die is one thing. Saying he's going to turn you into a puppy that licks at his hand a whole different layer of revulsion.

Good job - you just made Heroes 2xScary. Just wait until a Beast player sees one of their former friends as some "tame" pet of their adversary. They will freak.

[The young man in the cafe]

Here is an example of a tamer gift of the protection variety:

What do you mean, you're trying to save me?!

modern heroic fiction abounds with humorous scenes where a hero attempts to save an innocent from a monster, only for the monster to be the pet of a much more capable than thought innocent, thus putting the Hero in an embarrassing spot that takes the wind of their sails for bit.

If a Beast collared by a tamer with this gift is attacked by a slayer hero, the tamer can roll, presence + persuasion , on a success, the slayer is embarrassed enough by the fact that "innocent" didn't need saving to back off (for now at least). On an exceptional success, the slayer gains an intergrity dot as they realize that this might not actually be about their story. On a failure, the hero keeps attacking, gaining a bonus to attack on a dramatic failure.

[The young man in the cafe]

I'm too new to the system (still learning) to comment on the rules ideas, but conceptually it's horrifying. It's one thing for a player to contemplate being killed by some "hero". It's entirely a different layer to imagine they might become a neutered lapdog to some guy. The woodsman telling the big bad wolf he's going to die is one thing. Saying he's going to turn you into a puppy that licks at his hand a whole different layer of revulsion.

Good job - you just made Heroes 2xScary. Just wait until a Beast player sees one of their former friends as some "tame" pet of their adversary. They will freak.

Thing is, collars don't force a beast to love or even like a tamer, they just create a thing a tamer can do to or offer to a collared beast to get them to do a single command per instance. It's perfectly possible to have a beast who hates the tamer that collared them, but their horror still has that Pavlovian response to the tamer offering them something that gives them satiety (for example) that makes them do tricks for them.

Of course, it's perfectly possible that a beast that was collared to a powerful tamer long enough might start acting that way...

[SunlessNick]

I dont have any useful suggestions, but I wanted to note that heroes of this type do have folkloric precedent (often saints).

[ajf115]

Just a question: how specific are the commands that Collars allow the Tamer to give? Is it as broad as 'Attack that person' or as narrow as 'Attack a person wearing X'?

[The young man in the cafe]

Just a question: how specific are the commands that Collars allow the Tamer to give? Is it as broad as 'Attack that person' or as narrow as 'Attack a person wearing X'?

It depends on the beast's satiety and the collar in question. For instance, a collar that involved offering the beast somethings that feeds their particular hunger allows for more specific and involved commands at low satiety than high.

[Taidragon]

Technically speaking, there are ways you can tame a Beast - simply be a splat that can offer it Family Dinner on a regular basis and with a much larger power base, possibly with benefits the Beast couldn't get by being dominant. A warren of vampires who would have use of a Beast would take it along to watch them hunt and feed, giving it food and then getting services from it. Changelings on a likewise front would get on the Beast's good side in order to have a potent force help them. Heck, having a content Beast that can open any door you come across makes it a worthwhile venture "taming" them, and if you get them addicted to the culture, it can make them want to stay on their own accord, what with Family and all. Heroes...are much more likely to behead a wolf than turn it into a puppy for them, in my eyes.

[Kingdom of One]

Technically speaking, there are ways you can tame a Beast - simply be a splat that can offer it Family Dinner

Or regular doses of mind control. Vampires, changelings, and mages all have the means to acquire Pets. And once you're hooked, a lot of that stuff is powerful, long-lasting, and offers snowball potential to make its usage safer and safer.

Heroes...are much more likely to behead a wolf than turn it into a puppy for them, in my eyes.

Heroes protect Mankind from fear and end the threat of Man's predators. The taming of the wolf is an ancient archetype, one that feels very appropriate, actually. Violence is simple and somewhat effective, but a Pet - as opposed to an unchecked Beast - is more than just a threat ended, it can be turned against other threats. And if the Pet can be sated in such an arrangement - if collars, for example, offer submissive paths to regaining Satiety - then it might be the best hope of Beasts shackled to particularly despicable or monstrous extrusions of the Primordial Dream. The ones who have to kill, or are driven to hunt those already victimized by society and break them where they're fractured, the mind-scarrers and flesh-manglers...teaching lessons in fear, to the degree that it's even real, is an inhuman and alienating practice. People follow orders all the time. They work in hierarchies, prefer them, create them wherever they gather. Independence isn't too much to trade for the safety and wellbeing of others, every parent knows that. Perhaps some Beasts learn.

That's from their end, of course. From the Hero's end, that's a lot of power to have leashed and keep from going to your head - and a lot of acceptable target, depending on what made you a Hero, what monsters are to you, what kind of ghosts or demons (metaphorical, literal) might hunger for justice, or vengeance, or sacrifice.

[MCN]

Honestly? Sounds like antagonistic Beast rather than a Hero. A number of Beasts already do this with their Kin using existing abilities and powers. It resonates with the Collector / Tyrrant Hungers.

[The young man in the cafe]

Or regular doses of mind control. Vampires, changelings, and mages all have the means to acquire Pets. And once you're hooked, a lot of that stuff is powerful, long-lasting, and offers snowball potential to make its usage safer and safer.



Heroes protect Mankind from fear and end the threat of Man's predators. The taming of the wolf is an ancient archetype, one that feels very appropriate, actually. Violence is simple and somewhat effective, but a Pet - as opposed to an unchecked Beast - is more than just a threat ended, it can be turned against other threats. And if the Pet can be sated in such an arrangement - if collars, for example, offer submissive paths to regaining Satiety - then it might be the best hope of Beasts shackled to particularly despicable or monstrous extrusions of the Primordial Dream. The ones who have to kill, or are driven to hunt those already victimized by society and break them where they're fractured, the mind-scarrers and flesh-manglers...teaching lessons in fear, to the degree that it's even real, is an inhuman and alienating practice. People follow orders all the time. They work in hierarchies, prefer them, create them wherever they gather. Independence isn't too much to trade for the safety and wellbeing of others, every parent knows that. Perhaps some Beasts learn.

That's from their end, of course. From the Hero's end, that's a lot of power to have leashed and keep from going to your head - and a lot of acceptable target, depending on what made you a Hero, what monsters are to you, what kind of ghosts or demons (metaphorical, literal) might hunger for justice, or vengeance, or sacrifice.

The taming of the wolf viewpoint is a pretty good one for the subject. The tamer heroes would indeed be the heirs to the prehistoric men who first tamed wolves, where as the usual slayer heroes are the heirs of the prehistoric man who killed cave bears and such. And yes, some Beasts do feel that working with a high integrity tamer is a better way to feed their hunger than the lesson bit. Besides, tamers are very good at finding the sorts of bad people who deserve a little terror. In my Savannah setting, one tamer in the Georgia State Patrol and their collared beasts are the reason there hasn't been a successful terror attack in Savannah. She sees working with her beasts as a work release program of sorts and her collared beasts see it as an easy way to feed, everybody wins.

[Mangle77]

The taming of the wolf viewpoint is a pretty good one for the subject. The tamer heroes would indeed be the heirs to the prehistoric men who first tamed wolves, where as the usual slayer heroes are the heirs of the prehistoric man who killed cave bears and such. And yes, some Beasts do feel that working with a high integrity tamer is a better way to feed their hunger than the lesson bit. Besides, tamers are very good at finding the sorts of bad people who deserve a little terror. In my Savannah setting, one tamer in the Georgia State Patrol and their collared beasts are the reason there hasn't been a successful terror attack in Savannah. She sees working with her beasts as a work release program of sorts and her collared beasts see it as an easy way to feed, everybody wins.

So... Amanda Waller and the Suicide Squad?

[Nyrufa]

You forgot Ranchers

[Werescythe]

I am not sure you would want the tamer as a "hero" as the heroes have a tendency to be very proud to the point of being forceful and aggressive while the tamer concept he doesn't feel quite like that. Plus I doubt a monster would ever let a hero put a collar on them. However, what if the tamer was a human that is similar to the hero (they feel a similar call like the heroes do) except instead of being all about hunting monsters they instead seek to "tame" monsters in order to study them?

Well, that is just a thought.

[Vent0]

I am not sure you would want the tamer as a "hero" as the heroes have a tendency to be very proud to the point of being forceful and aggressive while the tamer concept he doesn't feel quite like that. Plus I doubt a monster would ever let a hero put a collar on them. However, what if the tamer was a human that is similar to the hero (they feel a similar call like the heroes do) except instead of being all about hunting monsters they instead seek to "tame" monsters in order to study them?

Well, that is just a thought.

But that's just a different flavor of Hero (which describes a particular category of human-being in relation to Beasts).

Hero: A human who has responded to the Primordial Dream (and remains human). Usual behavior at low Integrity manifests as a compulsive urge to hunt down the source of the Primordial ripples (ie. Beasts) and eliminate them.