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  • Originally posted by Tessie View Post

    Are they supposed to have Seeming benefits? Can't find any mention of it on pages 252-253 so I'd just assume they wouldn't have any. Unless, of course, they've somehow managed to bargain for them.
    That us possible. I assumed that was one possibility but wasn't very good at expressing it in my initial question


    A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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    • Greetings,

      Hollow questions:
      1. Assuming that a non-changeling can access the Hedge, can anyone get the Hollow merit? In the mage forum, two different posters agree but I wanted the opinion from the Changeling folks.
      2. Do I understand correctly that the Hollow does not need to reflect the Thorn / Hedge theme? For example I want my Hollow to look like a comfortable mid sized manor on a fortified island in the middle of the sea (Luxury Goods, Size Matters 2, Hidden Entry)
      3. If the answer to the previous question is YES, what stops me from making the Hollow larger and larger by developing more of the sea?

      Thanks,
      Last edited by lbeaumanior; 11-28-2022, 09:32 PM.

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      • Originally posted by lbeaumanior View Post
        Greetings,

        Hollow questions:
        • Do I understand correctly that the Hollow does not need to reflect the Thorn / Hedge theme? For example I want my Hollow to look like a comfortable mid sized manor on a fortified island in the middle of the sea (Luxury Goods, Size Matters 2, Hidden Entry)
        • If the answer to the previous answer is YES, what stops me from making the Hollow larger and larger by developing more of the sea?
        Thanks,
        Since I answered one as the former Changeling Guy and otherwise as some person who checks out Mage,

        2. The Hedge need not strictly look like a traditional thorn bush and greenery, but the idea of thorns is omnipresent. The oceans of the Hedge are cramped with raised coral, ice-flow strewn wall waves, and constantly dancing lightning, while the cities of the Hedge are littered with reams of sharp glasssed neon lights, jagged steel-like protrusions, and broken concrete. The Thorns need not be plants, but all the Hedge is Thornsome all the same.
        3. Your ability to keep the Hedge tame. Hollows can sometimes form and gain mild staying power for wahtever reason, but any hollow of size is a thing that needs presence of power, and often active application of said power to keep in place, else the Hedge begin to eat it up. Eventually, any Hollow too large for a motley(/-adjacent) to maintain will shrink to the limits of their upkeep.

        For more information, please consult Rites of Spring, and WInter Masques and Dancers in the Dark as asides.

        EDIT: Actually, a note on 1-anyone who can assert power and influence over the Hedge can take and expand a Hollow. Someone who doesn't have that might claim a Hollow as it exists, but without that power and influence, the Hedge could shape itself into dissolving that some day.
        Last edited by ArcaneArts; 11-28-2022, 07:30 PM.


        Kelly R.S. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
        The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
        Feminine pronouns, please.

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        • Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
          Since I answered one as the former Changeling Guy and otherwise as some person who checks out Mage,

          2. The Hedge need not strictly look like a traditional thorn bush and greenery, but the idea of thorns is omnipresent. The oceans of the Hedge are cramped with raised coral, ice-flow strewn wall waves, and constantly dancing lightning, while the cities of the Hedge are littered with reams of sharp glasssed neon lights, jagged steel-like protrusions, and broken concrete. The Thorns need not be plants, but all the Hedge is Thornsome all the same.
          3. Your ability to keep the Hedge tame. Hollows can sometimes form and gain mild staying power for wahtever reason, but any hollow of size is a thing that needs presence of power, and often active application of said power to keep in place, else the Hedge begin to eat it up. Eventually, any Hollow too large for a motley(/-adjacent) to maintain will shrink to the limits of their upkeep.

          For more information, please consult Rites of Spring, and WInter Masques and Dancers in the Dark as asides.

          EDIT: Actually, a note on 1-anyone who can assert power and influence over the Hedge can take and expand a Hollow. Someone who doesn't have that might claim a Hollow as it exists, but without that power and influence, the Hedge could shape itself into dissolving that some day.
          Thanks for the answer. How would a non-changeling assert power over the Hedge? I could envision a mage (specially someone with Fate and Mind) doing it, but seems hard for other supers, and even more for humans.

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          • Originally posted by lbeaumanior View Post

            Thanks for the answer. How would a non-changeling assert power over the Hedge? I could envision a mage (specially someone with Fate and Mind) doing it, but seems hard for other supers, and even more for humans.
            As a general rule, a human wouldn't. Most other supernaturals* wouldn't. The Hedge is not as amiable as the Shadow or Astral, with only the Underworld being more seemingly pernicious (and even that just eats you rather than writhes about)

            That said, if you really wanted to do the most you could for the matter, you might argue you can....bait the Hedge certain ways. Since the Hedge is psychoactive, you might try manipulating the emotional and mental states of others to try and chase it into a certain direction-powers that do that sort of thing might get you somewhere, and at a minimum maintaining a meditative state might keep things stable. Of course, given that the Hedge is prone to challenging your perceptions of yourself, that's gambling a lot, and none of it is actually control.

            I'd have to have my books (ie not be at work) to dig up any of the exceptions beyond Mage's open explanation on how they might(hedgeshaping wasn't a really thing in ie, but Equinox Road should at least be instructive in a "pointing the way" sort of way), but it's worth noting that I think there might be some situations where the other monsters are able to grasp some of the Hedge*. That said, there's been limited discussion so far on that subject (I imagine The Hedge will cover more of the notion), so if there any, I expect it to be scant. The changelings get it because it's their neck of the woods, and mages needed their way to be a submarine to the fairies fish eventually.

            The Hedge is not a fanciful backyard to have jaunty adventures in. It's a barrier between worlds that is so active as assumed to be alive above and beyond it's peers in regular otherworlds, a thing that wriggles, writhes, and challenges. Things that should not be there will very quickly realize that temptation is not the same thing as welcome, and what was true yesterday has no worth today.

            And most importantly, the Hedge was not exactly a place designed with crossover in mind.

            *obligatory "I suppose it should be mentioned it's not infeasible that Beast could develop a Kinship Merit that allows for limited hedgeshaping" because of course.


            Kelly R.S. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
            The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
            Feminine pronouns, please.

            Comment



            • Originally posted by 2ed Core Page 84
              Changelings see their own mien when they look
              at themselves, and (barring the use of magic) see other
              changelings’ miens when they look at their fellows.
              Originally posted by 2ed Core Page 108
              A changeling can spend
              a Glamour to see another changeling’s Mask instead of
              her mien for a few seconds.
              So does or does not a changeling need Glamour to see the Miens?

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              • Originally posted by lbeaumanior View Post
                So does or does not a changeling need Glamour to see the Miens?
                They do not for the mien. That is the default view a Changeling gets.

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                • Originally posted by Taidragon View Post

                  They do not for the mien. That is the default view a Changeling gets.
                  Thanks, after posting I just realized the difference between mien and mask, my bad. And thanks again.

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