Arcane's Paris-What's Going On?

[ArcaneArts]

...I know that type of friend all too well

Anyways, considering how big a Harmony Sin it is to betray your pack, that sounds like more than a stereotype. Also, if them leaving sent the Bulwark crashing down, probably getting more than a few Changelings killed or recaptured, how is it that the split was amiable at all?

It didn't crash the Bulwark, per se. What the Forest of Teeth practiced in the war wasn't just a Siskur-Dah that also acted as a Bulwark*, but a strange synthesis of the two. While a lot of people got minor template changes that helps support the weird little hybrid on their own, ending the mass agreement that is the mutation of a protectorate rite and societal pledge that emerged from the stew primordial symbolism** that a lot of the rest of that weirdness hung on made the continual practice of the Mesnée d'Hellequin***(the French name for Wild Hunt, or so Wikipedia tells me) unreliable-but not in the way where it's Bulwark properties always failed.

On that note, the protectorate-pledge was resolved amiably-the "institution" of the Uratha was allowed by the agreement of both parties to leave the institution of the Lost, out of a recognition by the administration that those quotations are around for a reason. Smaller marquis (pack/motleys)**** had their own issues, although the nature of arrangement gave the Uratha some leeway as regards their Harmony with departing. This isn't to suggest all of them just up and left once the deal was done, but those who kept more mixed marquis after the fact ran into the problems of being drawn into the failing Forest and the rising Rosiere, further and further away from where they really deeply belong. Some packs exerted pressures that drew changelings in, but the subsumption of the Resistance and the Freehold was a bigger problem for werewolves than the other way around. Some of them handled that in ways that kept their Harmony. Others, not so much.

It ended amiably enough that it's not a still standing conflict. The time as allies beats out the year where everything was shaky, particularly as each side started having their own unique problems come in.

*Yes, I know the current descriptions are just roughly terms from each game put together with a break between them. The end result is going to be....weirder.
**If the era had a third splat with it, it'd be Beasts. As is, while Beasts were involved in the forming of the Forest of Teeth and some of the resulting weirdness of directly plugging Uratha's animism into the warp of the Wyrd, they weren't quite involved enough with the Forest of Teeth itself directly. French Beasts were too busy trying to coordinate the other parties in directions-the Forest of Teeth was just an ease of compartmentalizing.
***and yes, the translation is 'house of the hellequin', not Wild Hunt, don't get snagged on linguistic weirdnesses.
****Not set.

[Master Aquatosic]

I got a wry smile when I worked to that conclusion too. In fairness, the werewolf stereotype is more like that one friend you had who might get along with great but would bail on you any time it was a choice between you and their other friends.

...I know that type of friend all too well

Anyways, considering how big a Harmony Sin it is to betray your pack, that sounds like more than a stereotype. Also, if them leaving sent the Bulwark crashing down, probably getting more than a few Changelings killed or recaptured, how is it that the split was amiable at all?

[ArcaneArts]

Had a chuckle at the idea that we have a place where fae are stereotyped as stodgy and werewolves as not group-oriented enough.

I got a wry smile when I worked to that conclusion too. In fairness, the werewolf stereotype is more like that one friend you had who might get along with great but would bail on you any time it was a choice between you and their other friends.

[Master Aquatosic]

Had a chuckle at the idea that we have a place where fae are stereotyped as stodgy and werewolves as not group-oriented enough.

[ArcaneArts]

How well, generally, do the modern Lost and Forsaken get along with each other? Did things with the Forest of Teeth end amicably, or was there some kind of falling out?

Modernly, there's a stereotype on both sides for the other. The Lost view the Uratha (They never dealt with just the Forsaken) as being flighty and irresponsible while the Uratha view the Lost as being stodgy and clingy. It's just those things that people say, light stereotyping that most never know why it gets passed around and can clearly see it's not true when it comes up-like blonde jokes and other such things. Still, both sides tend to know that if they need outside help, the other is a good place to go to, at least for a time.

The reason for this is that the Forest of Teeth ended amiably, but not without consequences. The administrative portion of the Forest of Teeth understood well in advance that once the Germans were expelled, the structure of the relationship between the two wouldn't last. For the Uratha, the Forest of Teeth was an exceptionally potent protectorate, and while their involvement with it changed them, the simple fact is is that once the Mesnée d'Hellequin was over, the divides between Forsaken and Pure popped right back up, and the pack mentality took precedence again. On top of that, the Uratha recognized prolonged exposure to the Lost without that direction, particularly under the Houses, would be hella self-destructive for them.

The problem was that while werewolves could slip out of that structure and back into their normal modus operandi, that left the Lost with half of a structure. A lot of positions were opened up by the Uratha leaving, and the Bulwark had been so long tied to Siskur Dah that fulfilling it became problematic. As the Forest of Teeth began consuming itself, a lot of changelings who were not part of the administration were understandably confused and angered that, feeling like it was a betrayal.

A fair number of changelings dealt with it by going back to the Seasonal Freehold, but for a good number of them, the association of the Seasonal to the Vichy made that too painful to go on, particularly within Paris that suffered the hardest hit from German changelings. The year-and-change between the end of the war and the birth of the Rosiere was a hard time, and there was a fair amount of experimentation going on. Even as a lot of the smaller freeholds started jiving with the mortals sense of reclamation and taking up the Seasonal again towards the end of that period, that mixed feeling towards werewolves ran heavy.

The Rosiere being established changed a lot of that, in good and bad ways. On the one hand, the controversy around Marcel's murder finally shocked eyes away-after all, it's not everyday the victim's wife and the most prominent changeling of the French Resistance and Forest of Teeth are the most likely culprits for a deep betrayal of trust, excused only by the ritual working. The controversy drew enough attention for the other hand to start working. Paris's recovery from the heavy damage was a nationally emboldening thing as word spread, and a lot of people felt like they could be at peace with their freeholds and the nations spirit of reclaimation, and vicariously with the werewolves-everything turned out to be mostly all right. It didn't hurt that Nicolette Chaput put people to work on public opinion about the Uratha during her nine months as High Sovereign, and helped to fan the change in attention by disappearing after the fulfillment of the Second Bulwark.

Anyways, point is that the changelings initially took it harder than the werewolves did, but they eventually got over it, and the main takeaway are stereotypes that, perhaps not surprisingly, seem like they would apply better to romance characters than monsters. There's fuel for both them possibly allying once again, but there's also fuel for old problems sparking up and leading to a feud. As if the Uratha didn't already have three other enmities to deal with in Paris.

[atamajakki]

How well, generally, do the modern Lost and Forsaken get along with each other? Did things with the Forest of Teeth end amicably, or was there some kind of falling out?

[Nicias]

I actually ended up realizing halfway through prepping a game I ran in occupied 1942 Paris with a tyrannical Autumn taking over a seasonal freehold and some other 1Eish courts moving in that if I squinted it could easily end up as the Rosiere courts, with a new coalition coming together, then being reincorporated into a new narrative and some emphases shifted. The Unseelie/Moon/Disgust court becoming the Court of Contempt (which is just disgust with some added flavor, anyway), etc. Fun to work with, and I'll be interested to compare it to your own notes about WW2.

[ArcaneArts]

One of the things I noticed about The Rosiere is that, in some ways, it looks like a shuffled Seasonal Freehold. That works given it's history, though part of the writing is to make those differences clear.

Sleeping Lions' model follows that sort of thought-the base idea is Scheherazade, but what was the Bulwark has some differences( there is a pit and something is in it-the Bulwark didn't just keep the Fae away) and the courts are not just cultural bastions but statements against Paris's, and the Rosiere's, prejudices.

It both is and isn't accurate to call Sleeping Lions a Scheherazade freehold-at least, if we get it right.

The third one is a historical artifact, a response against both the German Nazis and (especially) the Vichy Government. It's not present modernly, but changelings and werewolves who went in deep with the Forest of Teeth's power remain, and they are strange creatures, even when they seem whole.

[atamajakki]

In a sense, yes. It perhaps borrow more from Beauty's Story than Hood, but that's just a natural recourse of scale when trying to compromise the two stories, as well as the Freehold's bias of the two stories. Of course the Rosiere would prefer the version that reinforces more normativity than the other. Shame they chose stories that ride that line as hard as hell.

Forgive me if this is hopelessly stupid, but: are the Sleeping Lions the same as the Scheherazade group, or does your Paris have three potential freeholds in it?

[ArcaneArts]

In a sense, yes. It perhaps borrow more from Beauty's Story than Hood, but that's just a natural recourse of scale when trying to compromise the two stories, as well as the Freehold's bias of the two stories. Of course the Rosiere would prefer the version that reinforces more normativity than the other. Shame they chose stories that ride that line as hard as hell.

[atamajakki]

Glad to have this see the light of day in some form, and I'm almost as interested in that eventual blog post.

I've been on something of a Paris kick recently, thanks to two stellar books out of Pelgrane Press; Dreamhounds of Paris is a really wonderful zoom in on the Surrealist art movement and telling the stories of both their squabbles and their explorations of Lovecraft's Dreamlands, while the new Yellow King Roleplaying Game is partly set in Belle Epoque Paris, with American art students being haunted by black stars, animate gargoyles, and decadent masked nobles. Very excited to see more of this, Arc!

What's the rough gist of the Sleeping Lions?

EDIT: Now that I'm home I actually got to read the draft and I absolutely loved it. Just to make sure my work-addled brain isn't missing something; the Bulwark fiction of theirs is a hybrid tale of Beauty and the Beast and Little Red Riding Hood, a new fiction made of the old about the innocent's brush against the wild?

[ArcaneArts]

Not to bring the topic places you don't want it to go, but where might I go to be updated about this possible future blog post?

I'll update it in my signature when it's ready, and I'll probably mention it over in Off Topic.

[Charlaquin]

Not to bring the topic places you don't want it to go, but where might I go to be updated about this possible future blog post?

[Second Chances]

Very cool. Lots of potential story hooks and a great piece of writing overall.

[LostLight]

Thanks for sharing Arc! I must say that this piece is simply beautiful. Really enjoyed reading it! I also hope that you'll publish things about the Sleeping Lions and the Forest of Teeth in your upcoming blog, as both sound really cool!