Heaven

[nothri]

......double post. Sigh.

[ArcaneArts]

Don't worry, I checked and at least two people have posted in this one as recently as today.

[Dataweaver]

Hey, I have no objections. He actually contributed something useful to the thread. I can understand being against thread necromancy when all you're doing is bumping it to get it back to the top, without adding anything of value; or if you're adding to a thread that's clearly come to a natural close. But when it has unfinished business, and you're seeking to help advance it? That's a whole different matter.

And in this case, it's a thread that I've got linked in my sig (indirectly), as one of the things that I'm working on, when I have time to do so. If TerrorCooper had created a new thread to discuss the subject, that would have created a disconnect from this thread.

Combining that with the ‘Wasteland’ idea that Dataweaver, and it could be that the Subtine (derived from sub-routines, and my personal name for the place until we reach a consensus voting otherwise) acts as a dumping ground of sorts into which the GM diverts every last bit of aether it can (just because it can’t extend its influence into the Subtine, doesn’t mean it won’t at least try to make use of it).

As a result, while life doesn’t really exist in the Subtine (outside of whatever Unchained and/or angels who manage to somehow find their way into it), it does have a ‘land/data-scape’ of sorts; rivers (and other such bodies of water) of what appears to be a bubbling medley of toxic industrial run-off and waste chemicals (actually aether in a ‘liquid’ state) haphazardly dot and flow through the environment, whilst banks of what looks at first glance to be roiling clouds of poisonous gasses (actually aerosolised aether) drift across the landscape, and so on, and so on, and so forth. The sheer overwhelming amount of aether could actually be (at least part of) the reason have such a difficult time in the Subtine; they don’t have the knowledge, mentality or experience needed to harness the aether around them in any useful fashion.

The main problem with this idea is that it makes the Subtine a bit too beneficial for demons who can find their way there: demons basically subsist off of Aether, and if the Subtine is a dining ground for the stuff, the demon would virtually be in Hell.

No, I think it would be better to say that Aether is purely a phenomenon that's limited to the physical world: basically, it's a byproduct of the GM interacting with physical reality. There's no physical reality in Heaven, so no Aether gets generated there.

(I'd apply that same rule to the Shadow, the Underworld, and the Astral, for what it's worth.)

[TerrorCooper]

Thanks for standing up for me, fellas'.

The main problem with this idea is that it makes the Subtine a bit too beneficial for demons who can find their way there: demons basically subsist off of Aether, and if the Subtine is a dining ground for the stuff, the demon would virtually be in Hell.

No, I think it would be better to say that Aether is purely a phenomenon that's limited to the physical world: basically, it's a byproduct of the GM interacting with physical reality. There's no physical reality in Heaven, so no Aether gets generated there.

Yeah, you're probably right. Then again, I was working on the assumption that the Subtine was a corrupted Splinter that had partially fused with ragged, cast-out pieces of the GM's Heaven. As for the amount of Aether being too beneficial for Demons? I wasn't able to think of a suitable drawback that didn't risk contradicting what had already been agreed upon.

[Dataweaver]

Oh, by all means, risk contradicting what's already been agreed on, if you think you have something that's better. The worst that can happen is a “no”; and I promise that if you put thought into the proposal, I'll put thought into the rejection.

[CTPhipps]

TerrorCooper You know, there's a date in the upper left of people's post that tells you when the last post was put up? In the thread listing, the time is listed alongside the last poster? So you can tell when no one has posted in a thing for over a year?

Do me a favor and never attempt to moderate threads again.

You've been doing a lot of, "HISS, NECROMANCY!"

There's a report button for a reason.

[TerrorCooper]

Oh, by all means, risk contradicting what's already been agreed on, if you think you have something that's better. The worst that can happen is a “no”; and I promise that if you put thought into the proposal, I'll put thought into the rejection.

Huh... alright then.

Do me a favor and never attempt to moderate threads again.

You've been doing a lot of, "HISS, NECROMANCY!"

There's a report button for a reason.

I agree. If someone's wanting to report/stop Necromancy, they should try using the report button.

[CTPhipps]

Let's move on please.

[Guest]

Slight change of topic, but...

Is there also a “real” Heaven called the Empyrean from
WoD Inferno? Or did OPP retcon that when they created the God-Machine?

[Dataweaver]

The Empyrean was never confirmed to actually exist; and even if it did, it would have about as much to do with the God-Machine as the demons of the Inferno do.

[Guest]

Thanks. I thought maybe the God-Machine superseded the stuff in Inferno.

[Dataweaver]

No; they're separate and unrelated phenomena that just happen to share a (very) few thematic similarities. There's a stronger case for tying the Promethean Principle to the Empyrean, though — assuming the Empyrean exists at all.

[Guest]

Hmmm. Interesting.

[Dwight]

Always the Ather supernal realm

[Dataweaver]

True; especially with the second edition's promotion of Emanations, making otherworldly locales populated by angelic beings a thing in Mage.

But that's drifting quite a ways away from the topic of this thread: an ephemeral realm specific to the God-Machine and its angels.