[Deviant] Ask a Simple Question, Renegade-Style

[moonwhisper]

If those are the only modifying factors, I think that would be a net -4 and a net +4, respectively, since there are three of one and one of the other, not an even split.

The problem with adding up penalties is that it scales up with the number of players. Which means that 4 homeless characters are harder to track than 2, and it doesn't make sense to me.


It would make sense if the roll was to find *all the characters at once*, but the way I understand it the Surveillance roll represents the Conspiracy getting a blip on their radar, *any* blip.


I just started running a chronicle with 5 players. It seems that if 3 or 4 of them satisfy some circumstances like homeless or unemployed, the penalty will still outweight even the use of magnitude 5 overt variations.


It seems weird that having more characters chased by the same conspiracy increases Nodes and Attributes but not surveillance dice pool.

[Satchel]

It seems weird that having more characters chased by the same conspiracy increases Nodes and Attributes but not surveillance dice pool.

I mean, it seems weird to me to count a cohort as both "homeless" and "owns a house" considering how cohorts are described in the book, particularly given the splat's relation to the Safe Place Merit, but that was the premise of the question.

The most sensible read is probably to use the modifier for living situation that most benefits the roll for the whole cohort, given the aforementioned "angle the result toward the character contributing the most bonuses" thing and treat the cohort as a collective character for which each modifier can apply once. The cohort isn't homeless if one of them owns a home unless for some reason the one who owns a home refuses to let the rest crash at their place or associate with them, at which point the question arises of how a cohort with Deviant Problems can cohere.

It's definitely not the intention that each character has a separate Surveillance roll for them, because the conspiracy does not get a scaling number of Conspiracy Actions to act against the cohort with based on number of players, and the Surveillance roll still provides the opportunity for action even on a failure (and past a certain combination of Standing and highest Overt Scar/Variation it's impossible for it to do worse than fail thanks to the modifier cap in relation to the core dicepool).

[Omichli]

Since most other splats have their own spiritual realms including the Underworld, does Deviant have its own realms, or does it include everything from every other splats since the Remades can basically be anything?

[21C Hermit]

Since most other splats have their own spiritual realms including the Underworld, does Deviant have its own realms, or does it include everything from every other splats since the Remades can basically be anything?

Yes to the latter, though the underworld of society is divorced from most peoples’ daily lives to count as an ‘Otherworld’ I think, and that’s the main focus. Sorta like how Vampire (and Hunter) does it.

[Stupid Loserman]

Since most other splats have their own spiritual realms including the Underworld, does Deviant have its own realms, or does it include everything from every other splats since the Remades can basically be anything?

Deviants are tuned to expect most of their antagonists to be human conspirators, and so the corebook Variations don't really make them much better than ordinary humans at interdimensional travel. Remade with Coactive Variations can interact with ephemeral entities such as spirits and ghosts, but generally they interact with those that have already breached or been stranded in the material realm.

[Satchel]

Since most other splats have their own spiritual realms including the Underworld, does Deviant have its own realms, or does it include everything from every other splats since the Remades can basically be anything?

As highlighted above, in practical terms, Deviants as a whole are in the same place as half of the other splats* as far as extradimensional travel goes: they inhabit the mortal material world of flesh and stone. They can hypothetically develop abilities relating to visitors and intrusive phenomena from outside the setting's primary stage, but the demands of Conviction and Loyalty tend to make messing around in other worlds a pursuit that will strain their connection to humanity outside of very particular circumstances. A character with high-Magnitude Conspicuous Appearance and/or whose Variations are in the End Stage might find themselves pulled into the deep end in that fashion, but the list of splats with easy access to the actual terrain of a different dimension are outliers compared to the rest of the world.

* Vampire, Promethean, Hunter, Mummy, and Demon don't have another world they deal with mechanically by default in any sense more involved than awareness of a phase of Twilight; the Unchained have a tool for visiting the main otherworlds in a specific Exploit, and the Arisen can only get as far as the topmost layer of the Underworld via ghostly Twilight by chance; the closest thing Promethean has to a "realm" is the introduction of Azothic Memory in 2e, which isn't dealt with as a separate plane of existence, and Demon's closest equivalent to "another world" is explicitly God-Machine facilities being products of folded space and/or phased into Twilight; I've made the argument before that Vampire notionally shares the same approximate "otherworld" as Deviant and Hunter, but that's very much more a thematic statement than a metaphysical one.

[Demigod Beast]

Vampire has Dis, the Lower Depth the Strix come from.

[Satchel]

Vampire has Dis, the Lower Depth the Strix come from.

Dis is a black void only accessible with the help of the most powerful Strix, modern Strix are native to the mortal world, and nobody has anything they actually deal with there in a regular game. It has less impact on a game of Vampire than Duat does on a game of Mummy, never mind comparing it to the Shadow, the Underworld, the Hedge or the Astral.

[Demigod Beast]

True. Still, it’s the closest thing.

[Omichli]

As highlighted above, in practical terms, Deviants as a whole are in the same place as half of the other splats* as far as extradimensional travel goes: they inhabit the mortal material world of flesh and stone. They can hypothetically develop abilities relating to visitors and intrusive phenomena from outside the setting's primary stage, but the demands of Conviction and Loyalty tend to make messing around in other worlds a pursuit that will strain their connection to humanity outside of very particular circumstances. A character with high-Magnitude Conspicuous Appearance and/or whose Variations are in the End Stage might find themselves pulled into the deep end in that fashion, but the list of splats with easy access to the actual terrain of a different dimension are outliers compared to the rest of the world.

* Vampire, Promethean, Hunter, Mummy, and Demon don't have another world they deal with mechanically by default in any sense more involved than awareness of a phase of Twilight; the Unchained have a tool for visiting the main otherworlds in a specific Exploit, and the Arisen can only get as far as the topmost layer of the Underworld via ghostly Twilight by chance; the closest thing Promethean has to a "realm" is the introduction of Azothic Memory in 2e, which isn't dealt with as a separate plane of existence, and Demon's closest equivalent to "another world" is explicitly God-Machine facilities being products of folded space and/or phased into Twilight; I've made the argument before that Vampire notionally shares the same approximate "otherworld" as Deviant and Hunter, but that's very much more a thematic statement than a metaphysical one.

I see, thank you very much for the detailed explanation. I will have questions for the other splats soon.

[honoraryorange]

If someone has Monstrous Transformation 5, can they ever improve any of the entangled Variations under it? Regardless of which setup you chose (two 4's, three 3's, four 2's, etc), is there ever any way to raise them given Monstrous Transformation is already at 5?

[Satchel]

If someone has Monstrous Transformation 5, can they ever improve any of the entangled Variations under it? Regardless of which setup you chose (two 4's, three 3's, four 2's, etc), is there ever any way to raise them given Monstrous Transformation is already at 5?

Not without still meeting the usual requirements for multiple Variations entangled with a single Scar, e.g. raising the Magnitude of a lower-level Variation to the current maximum or dropping an existing power from the list to bump everything else up. The primary benefit of Monstrous Transformation is the ability to activate multiple Variations in the same action, so effective forms tend to lean into the benefits of a lot of low-Magnitude Variations.

[moonwhisper]

If I understand correctly, it is not possible to raise Variation magnitude permanently or gain new variations without increasing Scar magnitude or gaining new scars.
But Scar magnitude can only be increased (or new Scar acquired) if the character has Instability damage.

So if the character has no Instability damage, they cannot acquire new variations or increase existing variation magnitude. Is that correct ?

[Satchel]

So if the character has no Instability damage, they cannot acquire new variations or increase existing variation magnitude. Is that correct ?

Barring the temporary increases Cephalists and Coactives can get from their Adaptations, yes, that's correct.

[moonwhisper]

Barring the temporary increases Cephalists and Coactives can get from their Adaptations, yes, that's correct.

It seems a bit weird that the only way to improve a character's power is through a "damage mechanic" that everything else in the game pushes you to heal.
I guess it's meant to avoid having a power fantasy game instead of an rpg with themes of body horror etc.

Anyway, thank you for your answers