[2E] Dead Dominions and folklore

[wyrdhamster]

With Geist 2E Underworld cosmology, Dead Dominions reflects local ‘afterlife folklore realm’, yes? So what would it look like in, for example, Scotland – like Celtic afterlife, or rather like Christian Heaven?

[Vent0]

Maybe: Mostly Christian, but with secret doors to the Celtic one if you know where to look. Buried, but never gone.

[Demigod Beast]

The Dead Dominion of ‘Heaven’ would be a place of fire and judgment, as the Underworld, as a whole, is a nasty, nasty, alien place. It wouldn’t be Heaven as most believers imagine it. It would be full of fiery wheels of eyes with wings that have daggers as feathers, blazing, blinding light from statues of enigmatic, unknowable entities, and the ‘purgation of sins’. This would not be a paradise. The real Heaven, whatever it truly is, is not in the Lower Depths.

[Vent0]

The Dead Dominion of ‘Heaven’ would be a place of fire and judgment, as the Underworld, as a whole, is a nasty, nasty, alien place. It wouldn’t be Heaven as most believers imagine it. It would be full of fiery wheels of eyes with wings that have daggers as feathers, blazing, blinding light from statues of enigmatic, unknowable entities, and the ‘purgation of sins’. This would not be a paradise. The real Heaven, whatever it truly is, is not in the Lower Depths.

The Underworld isn't the Lower Depths. As for Heaven, "Within a Dominion, a ghost who abides by the Old Laws is safe from the leeching effect of the Underworld." seems like one might appear to be a paradise to the dead... as long as you Obey.

[SunlessNick]

Dead Dominions reflects local ‘afterlife folklore realm’, yes?

No? Once you're down in the Dead Dominions you're not really local to anywhere on Earth. You'll find echoes of afterlife folklore, but all trashed up, garbled, and admixed. You're more likely to find parallels to folklore in the Upper Reaches.

[wyrdhamster]

The Dead Dominion of ‘Heaven’ would be a place of fire and judgment, as the Underworld, as a whole, is a nasty, nasty, alien place. It wouldn’t be Heaven as most believers imagine it. It would be full of fiery wheels of eyes with wings that have daggers as feathers, blazing, blinding light from statues of enigmatic, unknowable entities, and the ‘purgation of sins’. This would not be a paradise. The real Heaven, whatever it truly is, is not in the Lower Depths.

Should not Dead Dominion of Christianity be then Purgatory from Bible? I remember there was Gehenna described in Wolf & Raven Dark Era material.

[wyrdhamster]

No? Once you're down in the Dead Dominions you're not really local to anywhere on Earth. You'll find echoes of afterlife folklore, but all trashed up, garbled, and admixed. You're more likely to find parallels to folklore in the Upper Reaches.

I re-read Underworld preview and cannot find how Upper Reaches looks like, beside enigmatic 'the liminal stage between the living world and the Lower Mysteries, where the dead congregate in their hermitages, shantytowns, and even the great River Cities'.

Was there some direct description in 1E Book of the Dead?

[Tessie]

I've gotten the impression that Dead Dominions are about as big as large cities. Combine that fact with there being several layers of Dead Dominions and it's a bit silly talking about what Dead Dominion a whole nation might have. Christianity-like Dominions might be more common since that's the reigning religion, coupled with some popular stereotypical afterlifes. There is probably some Celtic ones at first River height, but most are older and likely further down in the Lower Mysteries.

[milo v3]

It doesn't look like the underworld incorporates local faiths into it's landscape anymore.

[Darkfoxdev]

I re-read Underworld preview and cannot find how Upper Reaches looks like, beside enigmatic 'the liminal stage between the living world and the Lower Mysteries, where the dead congregate in their hermitages, shantytowns, and even the great River Cities'.

Was there some direct description in 1E Book of the Dead?

If memory serves it was literally a place that shifted from looking like a normal part of the world to looking like a creepy cavern. A portrayal that occurs to me would be a train station where the train never arrives and descending through the tunnels it will go from looking man made railway tunnel to naturally formed caverns, to bizarre caverns that seems to look like a rather macabre artist got really creative when designing a crypt. Though it's been some time since I last read up on this so that may just have been my take.

[Eldagusto]

With Geist 2E Underworld cosmology, Dead Dominions reflects local ‘afterlife folklore realm’, yes? So what would it look like in, for example, Scotland – like Celtic afterlife, or rather like Christian Heaven?

I'm thinking like Neil Gaiman's Black Dog Story their are a lot of old faith things still around for old country history. But modern times also change things. But sometimes you have an old hill that stays holy no matter who moves in.

[GimpInBlack]

With Geist 2E Underworld cosmology, Dead Dominions reflects local ‘afterlife folklore realm’, yes? So what would it look like in, for example, Scotland – like Celtic afterlife, or rather like Christian Heaven?

Dominions do not reflect any particular religion's views of the afterlife and do not map to the geography of the living world. Some are maybe-kinda-sorta similar if you squint and tilt your head, but Dominions aren't Scion's Underworlds.

[wyrdhamster]

Dominions do not reflect any particular religion's views of the afterlife and do not map to the geography of the living world. Some are maybe-kinda-sorta similar if you squint and tilt your head, but Dominions aren't Scion's Underworlds.

And then we have this stuff in Dark Eras (1)...

Underworld Domains
Because it is the beliefs of the living that shape the lands of the dead, the Underworld is made of domains that reflect the mythology, Norse and Christian. A traveler can find the afterlife that faith promised, though the longer she stays, the more she sees the faults that betray the Underworld for what it is: a space where souls merely endure.

Helheim
Helheim, the land of the dead, is not unlike the lands of mortal men and women. Those who remain true to the ways of the gods work to get by, making the places they find into reflections of the lives they once knew. They build homes from wood and stone, plant seeds and cultivate meager crops, fish in the streams, build boats to traverse the rivers and lakes, hunt the animals of the forest, and gather into communities.

They pay homage to Hel, the queen over the dead, who received their souls from Odin in just portion. To put it bluntly, however, she is an absentee queen. Though her subjects labor to pay her taxes, her lands are left unguarded and her fortresses stand empty. Only the servants who collect her due insist that they have seen her, but refuse to carry any messages for her subjects.

Despite all attempts to make Helheim a second life, it is a hollow existence. The sun never rises or sets, but sits in a gray fog at midday. The fruits of the fields and meat from the hunts are bland and tasteless. The countryside shifts so that no matter how far one tries to travel, he ends up stumbling back to his doorstep. Passions cool and soon there is nothing to talk about, fight over, or even fall in love with in this place. Slowly the souls fade, until they are just drones plowing the fields or endlessly mending the same loose board on a boat. With enough time, they simply cease to exist.

There is a way for a soul to escape this languid demise.

High fences mark the edges of Hel’s domain. A traveler need only climb over to escape, but once he has done so, he finds it impossible to return to Helheim by that way. He must now journey on to other realms of the Underworld.

(...)

Valhalla
If a Viking has lived a life that exemplifies the ways of Odin or Thor, he or she may be called to join the armies of the gods in Valhalla. It’s a place of glory in Helheim where they train in battle all day and feast all night as they prepare for Ragnarök, when they will be called to fight the foes of Odin.

To travel into and out of Valhalla one must cross the battlefields. Here the ruined bodies of the dead lie, half crushed into soil turned to mud by the spilled blood. Broken weapons and banners stand as grave markers, and flocks of ravens gather to dine from the remains as they pass through from one world to the next. The paths are treacherous and crossing exposes the traveler to the dangers of injury, not just from stumbling into a thicket of spearheads, but also from attack by those left on the field still seeking foes to vanquish.

Valhalla’s mead halls are guarded by Kerberoi who have fashioned themselves to be the lords and ladies of the feasting halls and battlefields. All who enter their holding must pass tests of valor, strength, endurance, and cunning. They include contests of boasting, trial by combat, death-defying stunts, drinking competitions, and romps in bed. A new arrival may have to face any or all of these challenges.

(...)

Gehenna
Some souls enter the Underworld and see only a place of punishment. Without their glorious heaven of warmth, light, and beauty, they believe they are damned and exiled to an eternity of torture. They sink deeper and deeper into
despair until pain is all that they can feel.

Gehenna is a landscape of broken stone and deep pits filled by funeral pyres. Wailing screams rise on the hot winds along with the smell of burning meat. The eldest denizens have become the daemons who lord their strength over the others, patrolling the domain and brutalizing imprisoned souls. Most souls beg travelers for deliverance or demand their freedom; others wallow in their fates, addicted to the punishments they suffer. Crossing this place is fraught with danger, from the inhospitable landscape to the monstrous souls that assault any passersby.

[Dave Brookshaw]

And that's why Dark Era writers should always contact people who know about the gameline involved first.

[21C Hermit]

If the Dead Dominions don’t, then maybe the Upper Reaches and River Cities do?