[2E] How to run the army?

[wyrdhamster]

In my British Mage chronicle players will be in 15 minutes attacked by the two chopper of military soldiers under commands from local Knights of Saint George. I just wonder if there are good military tactics on wizards? Or at least if there is better way to run two choppers with 10 infantry soldiers each on it in combat scenes? Or should I just makes normal mortal PC stats of one soldier NPC and use it 20 times?

[BurritoMage]

Well if it's an urban environment they would repel down from the helicopters under the cover of smoke grenades and then the birds would stay in the area to provide "eyes in the sky" or fire support if you wanna be that hard on the players.

As for stats I would just use the npc Soldier stats 20 times unless you want to embed a "special forces" a.k.a full hunter in the mix.

[wyrdhamster]

It's open terrain, hill in deep Britain, but only 15 miles from nearest military base. So 'full desant' should be in order.

[Malus]

What are their orders and mission?

[nofather]

Helicopters are horrible vehicles to attack mages in, as it takes very little magic to render them inoperable, sending them crashing, causing them to explode, and in doing so killing everyone on board.

Plus since they're loud you'd be able to target them via Sensory Range very easily.

I believe attack helicopters are in one of the Armory books, yes, Armory with specific guns at around page 110. If you want people shooting out from them you could use a Teamwork roll, with their firing adding to the helicopter's dicepool.

[wyrdhamster]

What are their orders and mission?

Search and destroy witches!

Helicopters are horrible vehicles to attack mages in, as it takes very little magic to render them inoperable, sending them crashing, causing them to explode, and in doing so killing everyone on board.

Plus since they're loud you'd be able to target them via Sensory Range very easily.

I cannot get them by submarine on the Hill, can I? Maybe better would be Armored Car?

Still, my main thing is - Let PC cast all their spells wants. We talk here about circa 30 Sleepers. It's at least 9-Again on the automatic Paradox rolls... Even 'system malfuncion' spells can be said to generate them with simple 'we make sure all our machines are good - and we hunt witches!'

I believe attack helicopters are in one of the Armory books, yes, Armory with specific guns at around page 110. If you want people shooting out from them you could use a Teamwork roll, with their firing adding to the helicopter's dicepool.

Thanks, will check it now.

[nofather]

I cannot get them by submarine on the Hill, can I? Maybe better would be Armored Car?

Still, my main thing is - Let PC cast all their spells wants. We talk here about circa 30 Sleepers. It's at least 9-Again on the automatic Paradox rolls... Even 'system malfuncion' spells can be said to generate them with simple 'we make sure all our machines are good - and we hunt witches!'

Ballistic missiles from a submarine can fire well onto the mainland and would cause Aggravated damage. A battleship could do something similar. Though I think, no guarantee, that would be harder to organize than a helicopter strike.

Mechanically, a better bet would just be a group of soldiers who can hit a target reliably at medium-to-long range. Not necessarily snipers, just firing at a decent distance such that they would be hard to pin them down with magic in return. Don't have them massed up, either, so they couldn't all be targeted with a single spell. Your other group would be closer up, throwing some tear gas and stun grenades which would disable the mages, making it much harder for them to really do anything but be mowed down or flee.

[wyrdhamster]

Problem is that PC mages took hostage local military commander / high Knights of Saint George agent. Killing witches is a means to recover the target commander, not by destroying everything on their way, as they can kill commander also.

[BurritoMage]

Depending on visibility and weather conditions it's very hard to spot a helicopter at night, and while they are pretty loud when they are on top of you not so much a mile out. More then likely they would drop the troops a ways out and then perform close air support once the troops engage the mages.

[Ashenrogue]

How powerful are the mages in question and are they ready for retaliation? Also, does the army in question have any ways of piercing magical defenses?

[wyrdhamster]

Gnosis circa 6, Arcana 4-5. Army can have any defense a Knight of Saint George can provide. Plus few of my own fan ideas - like 'Mage Armor pricing bullets'.

[Ashenrogue]

I'll be honest, I don't really know what the Knights of Saint George can do, but assuming your mage players decide to ward the place they're in against detection or cut off access, do they have a reliable way of bypassing that? Assuming they have access to pretty much every arcana at 4 they could pretty easily do things like putting a giant ban or incognito presence on the area in which they're holding their captive. That's something you're really going to need to take into consideration.

Also, do they have anything to stop them from just teleporting away or hiding in the Shadow or Death/Spirit/or even Mind attuned Twilight? Thinking about it, since we're talking Masters here, they could just create gates to the Underworld or even the Hedge.

[Lord Jub-Jub]

The Soldiers can be sleepers but they'll need at least a couple Sleepwalker Knights with them. I came up with "Eldritch Rounds" for For my Task Force: Valkyrie game that did aggravated damage to mages and imposed a penalty on dice pools for spellcasting up to -5 from being shot. The idea was that an anonymous benefactor showed TFV enigmatic runes that messed with mages and their ability to do magic (abyssal runes most likely) and that is was entirely likely that R&D would find a way to adapt those runes to making wards and barriers that resisted magic or nullified it. I don't know much about the KoSG abilities, but they could do something with that. Basically if you can keep a Mage from casting then they're pretty easy to take out, that's why you bring sleepers to cause Paradox. Helicopters are probably a poor choice for taking on mages, you want to catch a Mage off guard with sudden surgical strikes. Generally taking on a Mage cabal is a months long process of collecting information, mapping out their routines and identifying family, friends and loved ones. I might suggest using the KoSG more heavily as the actual combatants and the soldiers are just to cause a distraction and cause Paradox.

On actually building the soldiers, I'd just make maybe two or three and just duplicate them. I would add a complete team of Knights though, if you want to be really mean you can give them conviction and skill tricks from Mirrors. The mages could still probably teleport away but that just means they are on the run.

[wyrdhamster]

Thinking about it - 'corruption' of choppers engines, leading to it's crash, can be easily solution to sorceres problems. But then they will kill 20-30 people in one action - so almost surely will hit their Wisdom scores. Even this scenario I like.

I'll be honest, I don't really know what the Knights of Saint George can do, but assuming your mage players decide to ward the place they're in against detection or cut off access, do they have a reliable way of bypassing that? Assuming they have access to pretty much every arcana at 4 they could pretty easily do things like putting a giant ban or incognito presence on the area in which they're holding their captive. That's something you're really going to need to take into consideration.

Knights with soldiers ( first group, now hostages ) were send to precise location my mages looks for. Military have direct location coordinates. PCs can make hostages, for example, invisible, but it will only makes matter worse - as 'choppers group' ( second one ) will not see people they were looking for, but only six witches I assume they will kill to 'monsters' first.

Also, do they have anything to stop them from just teleporting away or hiding in the Shadow or Death/Spirit/or even Mind attuned Twilight? Thinking about it, since we're talking Masters here, they could just create gates to the Underworld or even the Hedge.

Nothing. But each spell in eyes of Sleepers...

[wyrdhamster]

The Soldiers can be sleepers but they'll need at least a couple Sleepwalker Knights with them.

My standard Witch Hunting 'tactics' - make Conspiracy agents with Endowments ( i.e. Sleepwalkers ) commanders of unit to use their supernatural powers. And all the rest are Sleepers to make Paradox rolls for mages and aggrevate them to 9 or 8 Again.

I came up with "Eldritch Rounds" for For my Task Force: Valkyrie game that did aggravated damage to mages and imposed a penalty on dice pools for spellcasting up to -5 from being shot. The idea was that an anonymous benefactor showed TFV enigmatic runes that messed with mages and their ability to do magic (abyssal runes most likely) and that is was entirely likely that R&D would find a way to adapt those runes to making wards and barriers that resisted magic or nullified it. I don't know much about the KoSG abilities, but they could do something with that.

Intrigiuing, will think about using those, thanks.

Basically if you can keep a Mage from casting then they're pretty easy to take out, that's why you bring sleepers to cause Paradox. Helicopters are probably a poor choice for taking on mages, you want to catch a Mage off guard with sudden surgical strikes. Generally taking on a Mage cabal is a months long process of collecting information, mapping out their routines and identifying family, friends and loved ones. I might suggest using the KoSG more heavily as the actual combatants and the soldiers are just to cause a distraction and cause Paradox.

PCs just take most of KoSG agents in region - 2-3 of rest will be on Helicopters. More of them would be too much a streach in 'middle of nowhere' in Britain. As to Helicopters - I written already. If players will take Helicopters full of people before combat, it will be killing 30 people.

The mages could still probably teleport away but that just means they are on the run.

Yes, it's mages problem if they want to run from the place - it's wizards who want to explore this place. Knights can easily just sit there and wait for them.