Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer: Hunter Edition

[Cauthon]

I know that according to the fluff, the Lucifuge is descended from Christian demons; would people descended from non-Christian demons (i.e. Jinns, Asuras, Pretas, etc.) be part of the Lucifuge or something else entirely?

Dark Eras has a Japanese Hunter sect descended from Oni. They interact somewhat with the Lucifuge as cousins - they acknowledge similar origins, but not direct relation.

[Cross-a-way]

cybirddude Fourm user lost light has made just that.

It's a little out dated, but you can still read into it if you want.

https://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/hunter-the-vigil/866426-strains-of-the-cursed-blood?p=866714#post866714

[ArcaneArts]

I know that according to the fluff, the Lucifuge is descended from Christian demons; would people descended from non-Christian demons (i.e. Jinns, Asuras, Pretas, etc.) be part of the Lucifuge or something else entirely?

Bit of heavy misundertanding. As of the Player's Guide to the Contagion, the Lucifuge's bloodlines go back to Infernal demons, who may be entities driven to Vice but aren't proofs of Christian theology having any particuar validity, and could just as easily serve as spirits and demons in other religions. Christianity on the whole is no more valid than any other religion when it comes to appreciable interaction with the supernatural. Most instances that would otherwise suggest it are more the result of the supernatural taking advantage of Christianity as a collection of institutions to maneuver within and exploit, again much like any other religion in the world of Chronicles.

Going back to the demons for a second, older sources make this even blurrier-as of the Hunter Second Edition core book, the only thing that identifies a demon that a Lucifuge has power and authority over are those with the Infernal Dread Power, which could be applied to a variety of things, the Oni of the Otodo are mostly implied to be the same thing as the Lucifuge's demons but manifest just enough deviation in powers to raise a question mark, and First Edition suggested that the Lucifuge's demonic heritage could also have roots in things like spirits, fairies, ghosts, and more such beings.

Tl;DR, There are no Christian demons, there are demons who will sometimes adopt Christianity as their particular paradigm to haunt and exploit. Those demons could just as easily present themselves as though they were impure spirits under Shinto, rakshasas under Hinduism, tzitzimime under the Aztec belief system, and more, and likely do so as it is convienent.

[cybirddude]

Bit of heavy misundertanding. As of the Player's Guide to the Contagion, the Lucifuge's bloodlines go back to Infernal demons, who may be entities driven to Vice but aren't proofs of Christian theology having any particuar validity, and could just as easily serve as spirits and demons in other religions. Christianity on the whole is no more valid than any other religion when it comes to appreciable interaction with the supernatural. Most instances that would otherwise suggest it are more the result of the supernatural taking advantage of Christianity as a collection of institutions to maneuver within and exploit, again much like any other religion in the world of Chronicles.

Going back to the demons for a second, older sources make this even blurrier-as of the Hunter Second Edition core book, the only thing that identifies a demon that a Lucifuge has power and authority over are those with the Infernal Dread Power, which could be applied to a variety of things, the Oni of the Otodo are mostly implied to be the same thing as the Lucifuge's demons but manifest just enough deviation in powers to raise a question mark, and First Edition suggested that the Lucifuge's demonic heritage could also have roots in things like spirits, fairies, ghosts, and more such beings.

Tl;DR, There are no Christian demons, there are demons who will sometimes adopt Christianity as their particular paradigm to haunt and exploit. Those demons could just as easily present themselves as though they were impure spirits under Shinto, rakshasas under Hinduism, tzitzimime under the Aztec belief system, and more, and likely do so as it is convienent.

Even if demons from non-Christian faiths are real, and the Lucifuge can be descended from said demons, what does the Lucifuge think of hunters who subscribe to religions other than Christianity, like Hinduism, Buddhism, Voodoo, etc and interpret the supernatural through their own religion's lens? Do they believe that these people are fools, or do they accept the idea of other religions having at least some truth?

[ArcaneArts]

Even if demons from non-Christian faiths are real, and the Lucifuge can be descended from said demons, what does the Lucifuge think of hunters who subscribe to religions other than Christianity, like Hinduism, Buddhism, Voodoo, etc and interpret the supernatural through their own religion's lens? Do they believe that these people are fools, or do they accept the idea of other religions having at least some truth?

2 things are tripping you up.

1) There aren't demons from non-Christian faiths, there are just various forms of demon-top down discussion about demons aren't going to be asking questions about Hindu demons or Slavic demons or otherwise understanding them in terms of geographic, national, or religious interests, they're going to go at it from their metaphysical background. The default position of the games is that none of the religions have any more cosmological presence than others-indeed, none of them have any cosmological presence.

2) The Lucifuge is not a Christian organization with Christian beliefs. Like, Lady Lucifuge is not a Catholic, Protestant, a Restorationist, or any kind of Christian in particular.

The Lucifuge are a collection people who have a lineage including demons in the family tree, and the centuries of research into the subject and learning more of the reality of that has become their main dialect. Sure, having emerged from Medieval Italy means that there's an ease with using Christian terminology and conceptions for describing what they interact with, but even at it's earliest incarnation, Lady Lucifuge's influence does a lot to neatly draw the line between the way agents talk about in contrast to their previous religious convictions. Their reality is the demons, not the religions that try (and often fail) to understand them.

Going with a practical example we can draw from, if/when the Lucifuge were able to connect with the Otodo in Japan, there's not really going to be an organization interest in getting them to identify the Oni instead as devils and the host of the Morningstar-that's not institutionally important to them. The actual point of conflict would be that any demon-blooded individual needs to swear fealty to Lady Lucifuge or otherwise get their brain scrambled, where as the Otodo has reliably operated with having a decentralized system of accountability that assumes more faith in fellow Otodo, even if they aren't part of the conspiracy, than the Lucifuge ever practices.

So to directly answer the question, institutionally, no, the Lucifuge doesn't give a shit what you name the demons and adjacent angels in particular. How seriously you take any given religion is any given individual's affairs, but the institution's use of Christian language is not a precedent for them having a Christian faith or interest.

This is neither Scion nor World of Darkness. All the religions are equally empty of substance as far as the supernatural goes.

[ShadowcatX]

Can Slashers, specifically Rippers, have supernatural merits or minor templates (like from Hurt Locker)? I was thinking about having an NPC who has a minor supernatural template who over the course of the chronicle will kind of fall in integrity until possibly becoming a ripper. I know DMs can do anything they want, but I'm curious as to the actual rules. I assume that a scourge can't have any as they are fully supernatural in nature, but if the NPC gets far enough along the road for that to be an issue I can give him dread powers to cover for the merits he's lost.

[Professor Phobos]

I see no reason why a ripper couldn't take the relevant supernatural merits to have a template. Some of them don't have attached merits because I guess they never decided on one unified mechanism for the lesser templates, but I see no reason why a ripper couldn't be wolf-blooded or a ghoul either.

[cybirddude]

Is it possible to have a Slasher that only kills people indirectly? Some examples include:

1: A femme fatale who seduces and manipulates others into killing for her.
2: A shaman that commands spirits to kill.
3: A cult leader that has their followers do the killing for them.
4: A psychological and emotional sadist that deliberately drives people to suicide.
5: A crime boss who has goons do the killing for them.

[Primordial newcomer]

Sure. Geniuses/puppetmasters are a good example of this. I will say though, 5 doesn't really sound like a slasher

[Cross-a-way]

Hannibal Lector

[cybirddude]

What Slasher Archetype would be most appropriate for a Slasher who kills purely for fun; that is they see their crimes as a game, and the hunters as players? They don't care if they get caught or not, all they care about is having fun killing people and outwitting their pursuers.
Avengers are out, because they kill for an Ideology.

[Primordial newcomer]

What Slasher Archetype would be most appropriate for a Slasher who kills purely for fun; that is they see their crimes as a game, and the hunters as players? They don't care if they get caught or not, all they care about is having fun killing people and outwitting their pursuers.
Avengers are out, because they kill for an Ideology.

Quick aside. Any slasher can kill for an ideology.

I do think you're seeing Slashers as overly specialized in personality. But the easiest archetype would royally be Geniuses

[cybirddude]

I have an idea for a slasher whose gimmick is that they are infected with a fatal, incurable disease and their goal is to take as many people as possible with them before they die. What Undertaking would be most appropriate for this type of slasher?

[Primordial newcomer]

I have an idea for a slasher whose gimmick is that they are infected with a fatal, incurable disease and their goal is to take as many people as possible with them before they die. What Undertaking would be most appropriate for this type of slasher?

Possibly as a brute/mask who is silencing the thoughts of his own mortality by killing other people?

EDIT: could have a cool visual where the longer the slasher lives, the more you see him the more sickly he is, and yet still a killing machine

[cybirddude]

Possibly as a brute/mask who is silencing the thoughts of his own mortality by killing other people?

EDIT: could have a cool visual where the longer the slasher lives, the more you see him the more sickly he is, and yet still a killing machine

A brute/mask isn't quite what I had in mind; my idea was that the slashers method of killing involved infecting others with their disease in ways such as sneaking their blood into the water supply, rape, donating their infected blood to hospitals (whose scanners wouldn't be able to detect the disease), etc.