Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer: Hunter Edition

[ArcaneArts]

Thanks for the in depth explanation Ruger. I'll keep not of NPC competence, tactics, anti mage endowments, and numbers.

ArcaneArts really? Well I guess I'm gonna be talking to my Requiem storyteller about the Barret commission (loved the group, never realised you can play them as a truly dangerous group for vampire players though)

The good rule of thumb for NPC's is "How would players approach this and win?" and then do that.

And a good rule of thumb for how they do that is Never Underestimate The Power of Position and Resources. Status is one of the most powerful Merits in any game, period.

[Michael]

really? Well I guess I'm gonna be talking to my Requiem storyteller about the Barret commission (loved the group, never realised you can play them as a truly dangerous group for vampire players though)

The problem is actually whether 'you' can. Cunning and ruthlessness are not things on a character sheet, your ST needs to act them out. There are plenty of people who have tried to play Commission style hunters against players only for the PCs to immediately snap them in half at the first opportunity.

Also, there's the serious issue of planning what comes after. I've seen a few examples of STs assuming that their players are simply going to let a Hunter ambush go and move on, assuming that Hunter organisations can just retreat into the shadows. The problem is that by default there's nothing really stopping a supernatural being from tracking a conspiracy to it's HQ. Maybe that's the game you want, but it might seems a little weird for a centuries old conspiracy to be brought down so easily.

[Vent0]

The problem is actually whether 'you' can. Cunning and ruthlessness are not things on a character sheet, your ST needs to act them out. There are plenty of people who have tried to play Commission style hunters against players only for the PCs to immediately snap them in half at the first opportunity.

Also, there's the serious issue of planning what comes after. I've seen a few examples of STs assuming that their players are simply going to let a Hunter ambush go and move on, assuming that Hunter organisations can just retreat into the shadows. The problem is that by default there's nothing really stopping a supernatural being from tracking a conspiracy to it's HQ. Maybe that's the game you want, but it might seems a little weird for a centuries old conspiracy to be brought down so easily.

To mitigate this - layers and layers of cutouts and abstraction. Don't let the PCs know who the real controllers are, if you can help it. Don't leave convenient notes on assassin calling out their employers.

All they should know is some thugs or mercenaries jumped them with fire, or a cell of Tier 1 Hunters put them on a list. Even the assailants don't know much more about who hired them or leaked the info. Make the PCs work at finding out the true culprit, or risk alienating others by flailing recklessly.

Again, depending on the kind of game you want.

[Primordial newcomer]

The good rule of thumb for NPC's is "How would players approach this and win?" and then do that.

And a good rule of thumb for how they do that is Never Underestimate The Power of Position and Resources. Status is one of the most powerful Merits in any game, period.

True that

Michael the Barret Commission is stated to hang back just like vampires to avoid direct confrontation. Besides it's not like the commission sleeps at day, imagine as a vampire waking up to begin your night, and see your favorite hunting grounds may be going away. Finally If a Barret commission hunter were to be found in public, i bet he would put himself in a position to where the vampire would be in trouble killing him

[ArcaneArts]

The problem is actually whether 'you' can. Cunning and ruthlessness are not things on a character sheet, your ST needs to act them out. There are plenty of people who have tried to play Commission style hunters against players only for the PCs to immediately snap them in half at the first opportunity.

Also, there's the serious issue of planning what comes after. I've seen a few examples of STs assuming that their players are simply going to let a Hunter ambush go and move on, assuming that Hunter organisations can just retreat into the shadows. The problem is that by default there's nothing really stopping a supernatural being from tracking a conspiracy to it's HQ. Maybe that's the game you want, but it might seems a little weird for a centuries old conspiracy to be brought down so easily.

Research, practice, roleplay. Watch movies and read stories, get into conversation about how you'd do this one thing and what would be done in response, ask questions to friends who seem like they would get it more, and keep at it.

It's a skill, people can learn them.

[Primordial newcomer]

I trust my Storyteller friend just fine, he's put hunter groups in our games before and takes advantage of the political landscape of the Requiem extensively, both to the fun and challenge for the group

[Ruger]

The problem is actually whether 'you' can. Cunning and ruthlessness are not things on a character sheet, your ST needs to act them out. There are plenty of people who have tried to play Commission style hunters against players only for the PCs to immediately snap them in half at the first opportunity.

Also, there's the serious issue of planning what comes after. I've seen a few examples of STs assuming that their players are simply going to let a Hunter ambush go and move on, assuming that Hunter organisations can just retreat into the shadows. The problem is that by default there's nothing really stopping a supernatural being from tracking a conspiracy to it's HQ. Maybe that's the game you want, but it might seems a little weird for a centuries old conspiracy to be brought down so easily.

I mean its not like taking out the HQ destroys the conspiracy. CEOs, generals, and clergy can be replaced easy, and Hunters probably have an efficient chain of command just in case that happens.
Take out the local church? Not like it is going to stop the global organization of MalMal.
Go to the Vatican and take out the leaders? They appoint new ones in an instant, and now you made them REALLY angry.

Its kind of a Hunter theme. One of us dies, the vigil lives on. A conspiracy won't really die unless you crush it to the point every member is gone.

[Primordial newcomer]

Pretty much, a candle goes out, another is lit. Like wanna take out the ascended ones? Good luck getting rid of that foundation, having to deal with the jagged crescent gangs that can be refilled and or mobilized easily, the monotheistic hunters of monster hunting zeal that are very effective in suhla to turn others against you (and have reformed extremist with CIA equivalent training), and finally the southern temple occultist and their many hidden temples. This is all ignoring the fact they have their elixirs.

Speaking of hunters as antagonist, have any of y'all had that happen in other gamelines. I'm including cells not part of compacts and conspiracies by the way

[Michael]

I trust my Storyteller friend just fine, he's put hunter groups in our games before and takes advantage of the political landscape of the Requiem extensively, both to the fun and challenge for the group

Well, that's fine then. My point isn't don't do it, merely, it's very easy to mess up and these are two things to be aware of.

Like wanna take out the ascended ones?

Sorry, I edited out 'centralised'. I intended to specifically talk about the conspiracies where they have a somewhat clear hierarchy. The Ascended are actually much better in that regard.

I mean its not like taking out the HQ destroys the conspiracy.

That's not the point. Baudolino has been running his conspiracy for centuries; having him taken out by some rando Awakened is kinda dissonant. Like, the length of time he's been around indicates a pretty slick operator who presumably doesn't attack people who can so easily retaliate. Further, I've seen people use the MM as one-off antagonists, only for the players to get distracted hunting down this conspiracy. Again, I'm not saying that's bad, it's just something to be aware of.

Actually, come to think of it, you can just remove Baudolino, it'd probably be more effective in that regard to just have the leader be some interchangeable cardinal.

Speaking of hunters as antagonist, have any of y'all had that happen in other gamelines.

I've used them as secondary antagonists in Mage before. I had a Hunter conduct mundane surveillance on the PCs then feed that information to a Seer.

[Primordial newcomer]

Actually, come to think of it, you can just remove Baudolino, it'd probably be more effective in that regard to just have the leader be some interchangeable cardinal.
.

Quite easy to justify actually. Baudolino is not even known to be alive by the MM. He has many figurehead leaders in his place

[Prince of the Night]

How likely is a resources 4 or 5 hunter to be approached by ashwood Abbey?

[Primordial newcomer]

I would say that he would receive an invitation to a party, with the hopes of him joining. Though, i have no idea which "face" of the abbey would meet him (as in old timers who are gentleman, country club like people in 30s and up, and rich young punks

[Michael]

How likely is a resources 4 or 5 hunter to be approached by ashwood Abbey?

Totally up to you or your ST.

[Michael]

How likely is a resources 4 or 5 hunter to be approached by ashwood Abbey?

Totally up to you or your ST.

[Prince of the Night]

is it implausible theirs probably some RICH old molney hunters who find the hellfire club De classe?