Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer: Hunter Edition

[Salagimsim]

You guys are amazing! Thank you so much for the speedy responses.

[Draconis]

I will add, by the way: H:tV second edition doesn't exist yet, but the CofD 2e corebook (aka "mortals" or "the blue book") includes quite a lot of material from H:tV first edition. You can run a solid Vigil game using only the 2e "mortals" core, mixing in some of the freely-available previews from the Onyx Path blog if you want. No need to invest in all the 1e books!

[Draconis]

How do you find each other?

It's difficult. A lot of would-be Hunters are completely alone with no idea where they can turn or who they can trust.

Often, a cell (small group of Hunters) forms when a group of people all find the same supernatural threat, and work together to deal with it. Other times, someone who's Seen Too Much runs into a larger group in the course of their Vigil. Or, someone goes to Confession and talks about what they've seen, and the priest knows what's going on and suggests they come to a particular "Bible study group" later that week. There's no set way.

Are all your factions non-magical?

Not all of them! Most Hunters don't have any sort of magic or superhuman powers, but there are some who do. One group gathers and hoards Relics, items with supernatural properties that they can use in their Vigil. Another has a form of "hedge magic" that they've developed to use against actual mages. Yet another is a special division of the FBI, whose agents seem to have psychic powers—but this might be the result of horribly unethical MKULTRA experimentation, the actual details are so highly classified you'll never find out for sure.

How do you deal with discovering the supernatural - and not joining them?

In CofD, the "Masquerade" isn't quite the same as it is in OWoD. It's not vast supernatural conspiracies keeping humans from finding out that vampires are real: instead, most humans have some vague idea that there might be more to the world than meets the eye, but most react to this by trying hard not to look in the wrong places. There's safety in mundanity. (Similarly, the vampires in Requiem don't control the world media to make sure nobody believes in vampires; they're focused more on the individual level. Some people may believe vampires exist, but nobody knows that I am one.)

Hunters are mostly the people who have seen too much and decided, no, I'm not going back to comfortably pretending nothing is wrong. I'm going to take a stand and make sure whatever I saw can't happen again.

Some of them might absolutely want to become supernatural—some actively take up hedge magic and use it in their Vigil, for example. But being supernatural in CofD usually comes with pretty major downsides. Vampires might be immortal, but they also need to drink human blood to power that immortality. For most Hunters, whatever motivates them to take up the Vigil in the first place also motivates them to refuse that deal. (And those that do, well…usually end up being the targets of other Hunters sooner or later.)

[Stupid Loserman]

How do you find each other?

The Reckoning didn't really give Hunters a way to detect each other - but The Messengers could certainly give hints - and the fact that we could clearly see each other's Edges (supernatural powers) made it easy to identify a potential ally in a fight (regular humans would rationalize away whatever they saw).

Any person who runs afoul of monstrous predation and is motivated to fight back can be a hunter, and if they make fighting back a habit and trace clues to find monster activity, sooner or later you're going to have more than one hunter in one place at a time. Hunters also depend on teamwork and support, and since keeping the Vigil isn't a supernatural transformation but just an activity bold people can take up, rounding up a team of hunters doesn't have to mean rounding up a team of preexisting hunters. You can turn to an inner circle of trusted friends you think might be motivated to share this tremendous risk with you, fill them in, and show them evidence that what you're pursuing isn't imaginary.

Note also that the WoD (oWoD) and the CofD (nWoD) have different assumptions about the average human's experience with the supernatural. WoD assumes that supernatural goings-on are consciously and actively concealed from the average person. Somebody witnesses a vampire feeding and gets away, and the Camarilla sees to it that they're discredited and then silently iced. At the same time, much of the mortal herd go their whole lives having no conscious interaction with the monsters secretly ruling the world.

In CofD, there is much less of an active role in keeping the supernatural silent. Vampires don't really care to mop up each other's messes as long as individual breaches don't lead back to them, and their Masquerades are individual labors, not collective. There are some monstrous conspirators that work to conceal activity, like Mage's Seers of the Throne and Demon's God-Machine, but the greatest carrying of the load is instead done by human nature. Most normal humans in the CofD do brush up against supernatural activity over the course of their life: hear voices in the night, see something shapeless carry away a bloody body at the edge of sight, open their closet door at the stroke of 12 on Walpurgis Night and see a city of stairs woven from flesh and wire. They just shut it out, bury the memory, pretend they didn't see anything, turn away, because they recognize the danger. People living in the Chronicles of Darkness can sense in the air that everybody is a little afraid there's something out there, even if nobody knows exactly what. Hunters are the people who are willing to risk their lives facing that "what" down.

Are all your factions non-magical?

Hunter the Reckoning gave us obvious, magically-empowered humans killing monsters.

Vampire the Masquerade had some too. Vampires could feed humans blood to turn them into a ghoul - they stay human, but quit aging and can learn low-level Disciplines (Vampire powers) so long as they're fed Vampire blood once a month. They might even be candidates for full Vampirism - so they made loyal servants.
.....but what if your Vampire patron is killed? Instead of seeking a new master - some ghouls would start hunting Vampires. Capture it, drain & store the blood, then kill it. A small group of (mostly human) hunters (small h) with fancy powers, no aging and doing a good deed by hunting Vampires.

Like - magic is a tool. Humans use tools. Do any of your factions go all Constantine and collect stuff? And if you do, how do you even identify it in the first place.

Hunter: the Vigil divides groups of hunters into three categories by scale. Cells of hunters are individual parties of five or so ordinary humans, without major connections outside of each other: drinking buddies who get together in Earl's garage and who've been concealing handguns and stalking downtown since the thing with three faces hurt Eddie's daughter. Compacts are groups big enough to be organizations, with leaders and group principles: the network of independent churches whose congregations look for the physical presence of demons in what they believe to be the last days. Hunters operating on these two tiers of scale are almost always ordinary humans.

Conspiracies are globally active and have gathered resources to fight back on the supernatural's level. Task Force: VALKYRIE is a black-budget paramilitary program with cutting-edge experimental munitions. The Cheiron Group's Field Projects Division locates, subdues, and kidnaps monsters for organ harvesting using human-tested monster grafts. Aegis Kai Doru is an ancient society which has outlived its supernatural once-masters, which goes all Constantine and collects stuff to hold supernatural predators in check. Some of the Children of the Seventh Generation, born from families tainted by the devil's bloodline and with half-demonic powers of their own, are gathered by the Lady Lucifuge to use the powers of Hell in the service of humanity.

How do you deal with discovering the supernatural - and not joining them?

This is my biggest query.

In the oWoD, humans were deliberately kept in the dark by the big factions - and the few who were Chosen to Hunt basically lived like wandering, paranoid survivalists. The magical aspect kind of defacto ensured you wouldn't switch teams, even if you could.

What prevents members of the Vigil from seeking out Vampires (or other monsters) to become one?

Disclaimer: I know, out-of-character, not all groups are joinable - but I imagine that in-character, there has to be humans who... upon discovering these monsters... decides "wait a second, immortality and super powers sounds amazing". They could even go all Blade, using their powers to hunt other monsters - so why not?

Nothing stops hunters from doing this. But if you turn "cancer cell" (a derogatory hunter term for a monster-infiltrated group of hunters) then by definition, you're not a hunter anymore. You're the hunted.

Most hunters, self-selected out of the population by their motivation to risk their lives hunting monsters down, wouldn't feel a temptation in this case. Sure, vampires are strong and fast and turn into bats, but they fuckin' eat people and I got into this job to kill monsters who do that. As the conspiracies above demonstrate, some groups of hunters do blur the line between human and monster, and some even do so for selfish ends, but they all share the Vigil, the act of monster hunting. Once you get to the point where the story of the hunt is overwritten by higher concerns, you're out of the club.

(Out of the major supernatural splats in the Chronicles of Darkness, incidentally, vampires are the only ones who can be voluntarily "turned" this way. Everybody else either is born that way or is transformed through a combination of suitability and extraordinary circumstance that's not easily replicated.)

[Salagimsim]

Hi folks! Ignorant questions incoming. I'm more familiar with the oWoD (including Hunter the Reckoning) - but I'm curious as to how the Vigil deals with some ideas.

How do you find each other?

The Reckoning didn't really give Hunters a way to detect each other - but The Messengers could certainly give hints - and the fact that we could clearly see each other's Edges (supernatural powers) made it easy to identify a potential ally in a fight (regular humans would rationalize away whatever they saw).

---

Are all your factions non-magical?

Hunter the Reckoning gave us obvious, magically-empowered humans killing monsters.

Vampire the Masquerade had some too. Vampires could feed humans blood to turn them into a ghoul - they stay human, but quit aging and can learn low-level Disciplines (Vampire powers) so long as they're fed Vampire blood once a month. They might even be candidates for full Vampirism - so they made loyal servants.
.....but what if your Vampire patron is killed? Instead of seeking a new master - some ghouls would start hunting Vampires. Capture it, drain & store the blood, then kill it. A small group of (mostly human) hunters (small h) with fancy powers, no aging and doing a good deed by hunting Vampires.

Like - magic is a tool. Humans use tools. Do any of your factions go all Constantine and collect stuff? And if you do, how do you even identify it in the first place.

---

How do you deal with discovering the supernatural - and not joining them?

This is my biggest query.

In the oWoD, humans were deliberately kept in the dark by the big factions - and the few who were Chosen to Hunt basically lived like wandering, paranoid survivalists. The magical aspect kind of defacto ensured you wouldn't switch teams, even if you could.

What prevents members of the Vigil from seeking out Vampires (or other monsters) to become one?

Disclaimer: I know, out-of-character, not all groups are joinable - but I imagine that in-character, there has to be humans who... upon discovering these monsters... decides "wait a second, immortality and super powers sounds amazing". They could even go all Blade, using their powers to hunt other monsters - so why not?

---

Sorry if these questions are too entry-level - but some of my other oWoD to nWoD leaps have felt like missteps - so I'm just wondering where to look or what book to pick-up that plays with these ideas.

[Minty]

Hunter 2E is not out yet, nor do we know when the kickstarter will be.

[nofather]

Is the 2nd ed. of Hunter the Vigil already out? Inwas thinking about a crossover with ViR 2ned but not sure if the manual is already out. And there are a lot of differences between 1st and 2nd ed. Especially on a power balance perspective

It is not out, we're expecting there to be a Kickstarter when it gets closer, which would have a near-complete manuscript.

There was some playtests available with rules, but the rules may have changed since then.

[Marcus]

Is the 2nd ed. of Hunter the Vigil already out? Inwas thinking about a crossover with ViR 2ned but not sure if the manual is already out. And there are a lot of differences between 1st and 2nd ed. Especially on a power balance perspective

[Draconis]

Thanks. I have most of the books with 2e Dread Powers, but I can't remember which book that is in? Was it actually updated to 2e or replaced ?

Not in 2e, it's a 1e power unfortunately. I don't know of a 2e equivalent but making one up wouldn't be hard: how about this one?

Faithful Servants
A vampire with this power can bind humans to their will, creating faithful blood-slaves out of anyone in the vicinity. Spend a point of willpower and roll Manipulation + Empathy + Faithful Servants minus the human's Resolve, representing a drop of your blood in their food or drink, and a scene's worth of conditioning embedded in conversation: using a more overt amount of blood adds +3 but cannot be easily concealed (think Dracula cutting open his chest and forcing Mina to drink). Every success removes a point of the victim's willpower. If this reduces the target to zero willpower, their mind falls under your control; they gain the Blood-Bound condition. This power can be used on a given human only once per night.

Blood-Bound (Persistent)
A vampire has bound your mind in chains of corrupted blood. You retain your free will…mostly. But when they give orders, it's hard not to obey. Harming them, or letting them come to harm, requires a point of willpower and a Resolve + Composure roll to even attempt. Resisting their direct orders requires the same roll but no willpower expenditure.
Causes: The Faithful Servants Dread Power.
Resolution: Become Beaten Down or suffer a breaking point due to this Condition's effects.

This is significantly weaker than Requiem's blood-bonding, but seems more balanced for the Hunters to have a chance against.

[Master Aquatosic]

Night Stalkers mentions using Control Emotion for this; it's basically the extended action for brainwashing/conditioning, but accelerated by blood.

Thanks. I have most of the books with 2e Dread Powers, but I can't remember which book that is in? Was it actually updated to 2e or replaced ?

[Draconis]

Night Stalkers mentions using Control Emotion for this; it's basically the extended action for brainwashing/conditioning, but accelerated by blood.

[Master Aquatosic]

Is there a way to replicate the Blood Bond with Dread Powers?

[Draconis]

1) I believe so. They all have Endowments in 1e too, if you look at the C&C book (which has its good parts and it's meh parts).

2) 1e or 2e?

[LeicsFox]

1) Are all Compacts and Conspiracies getting Endowments in 2nd edition?

2) Do elephant guns get any damage bonuses against human-sized enemies?

[Extant Reality]

So I've got a player who would like to turn the merit Peacemaker (Hurt Locker page 42) into a Cheiron Endowment. Anyone have some suggestions on how to do this? It seems like it would shake out to be similar to Hand of Glory, but with less raw power as well as less downsides. I was thinking about having it a 3-cost Endowment, work like the 3 dot version of Peacemaker, be made from a specific type of Changeling's vocal chords, and replace the merit's drawback with the character's voice being perfectly recognizable to anyone that's heard it before. I was tempted to make it a penalty to directly lying (playing off of the whole Faerie thing), but it's for a character that's very social-focused, so might as well have it be something that doesn't directly interfere with what they're trying to do.

Hey Enokh, what about this? "**** Luck: The Endowment stirs fate to work against the character in some fashion. The next roll the hunter fails automatically becomes a dramatic failure instead." I got this from the Hunter Core book on page 194. It seems thematically appropriate to the idea of Thaumatech using Changeling physiology cuz luck and fairies kinda go together anyways.