Devour the Slain, Knit endless loop.

[Hardwire99]

Here I am with another question.

What, in game terms, would prevent a character that has Death 3/Life 3 from performing devour the Slain on himself and then using Knit to heal the damage, then rinse repeat to fill up on manna.

Devour the Slain: Pull out 1 mana per potency and cause 1 lethal damage (not resistant lethal damage) in exchange. +1 reach doesn't count against the number of scours per day.
Knit: With +1 reach heal 1 lethal damage per potency.

Rinse and Repeat.

[Mrmdubois]

There's nothing there nothing stopping it, but I know that ultimately it's not that big a deal. I don't remember why exactly, because the last infinite loop thread was a while ago. I think it boiled down to, if it bugs you (or anyone else at your table) talk to your player. If that doesn't work you can make up a house rule to close the loop (Kind of lame imo, Mage is all about exploiting your sweet ass powers). Alternatively, if the player makes a habit of it then set up a scenario where it backfires on them. In the end you can also only do so much with infinite mana. Some of those things are pretty damn useful, but it's not like it's a game winning button smash technique.

[Hardwire99]

It was pointed out to me that I needed to read it a little closer, this is a two part denoted by the coma.

For each level of Potency, the mage may take one point of Willpower (up to the subject’s remaining Willpower points), or he may Scour the subject’s Pattern for one point of Mana, dealing one lethal damage in the process, causing existing wounds to open and fester.

If I did this on myself I would gain no mana as it is pulling from my body what I would be gaining. The wound is a byproduct of pulling it out, not what produced the mana. So in essence the subject goes down mana and I would go up the same amount, the subject would also take damage.

Is that correct.

[Mrmdubois]

Oh, it's a manipulation of the Scouring rules so it's not that you'd be draining mana from yourself for no net gain, you'd totally get that. It has to work that way because this spell can work on Sleepers when ty no mana in their Pattern except for what their Pattern is made of. What's interesting to me is that normally when you Scour the damage is Resistant, but in this spell it doesn't appear to be.

[Hardwire99]

Yes that is what I was looking at. I think it would totally work.

[Hardwire99]

Now onto the morality of it. I can see that this kind of torture/conditioning tool could be considered a Left-Handed practice if used against another. However if s masochist were to do it to himself I do not see that as Left-handed. He could use it for religious purification, physical/emotional conditioning. He could be doing it because he feels that breaking down the body every so often and rebuilding it strengthens the body and soul.

The question is would others find it Left-Handed in practice. even if he is doing it for altruistic reasons.

[Mrmdubois]

If he's not harming others by it then I don't see why they would be bothered.

[Hardwire99]

I have a character that could do this Death 3 and Life 3, The ST stated that it can be done but repeated use could cause a new persistent condition and I can totally see that as you start to crave the pain. I think it is fair and adds drama to the game.

[Mrmdubois]

It also adds an opportunity for you to pick up more Beats, so there's literally no downside.

[Caladriu]

I could have sworn that spell did Resistant damage, but maybe it doesn't because Resistant isn't intended to be something you can inflict on other characters.

[Dave Brookshaw]

The lethal damage from Scouring is resistant. You can't heal it with Knit.

[Hardwire99]

Even that done by the Spell Devour the Slain, it doesn't say that in the spell so Just checking. it specifically stated that it is 1 lethal

[Ashenrogue]

Well this leads me to another question. Assuming the damage done is meant to be Resistant Lethal, the page note explaining resistant damage specifies that it can't be healed through magic, though it doesn't specify that it only applied to Awakened magic. So if someone were to say, use the spell on a spirit and cause said spirit resistant lethal, could the spirit use its brand of magic (Numina) to heal its resistant lethal?

[logos]

The lethal damage from Scouring is resistant. You can't heal it with Knit.

This means you could use Devour The Slain to inflict resistant lethal damage on enemies. No other 3 dot spells have this effect. Is this appropriate for a direct damage spell of the Death Arcanum?

[Hardwire99]

I would not know but this just made the Devour the Slain one of the deadliest direct damage spells out there especially for being a 3 dot spell. Especially when you start to upgrade damage from lethal to aggravated from taking additional damage.