Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Jakondite View Post

    Um... *Considers* I don't seem to recall the Tamers of Fire having anything to do with Masculinity? So I think you'll be fine there. Could be wrong, been a while since I read the original, but gender-focus seemed a tamer of rivers thing.
    Yeah, that's the direction I'm going.


    MtAw Homebrew:
    Even more Legacies, updated to 2E
    New 2E Legacies, expanded

    Comment


    • As an aside - can you do a Subtle One's Legacy? I have a player who plays one, but converting it's been difficult for him.

      ... As well as basically every Legacy from Summoners? >.> LOL Joking, though the legacies in Summoners -were- pretty boss, particularly the Moros one that involved summoning the shades of dead heroes viking style (also the spirit one, but that one to a lesser extent - mostly because it gave you influences, which was awesome playing in 1e >.>)

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Jakondite View Post
        As an aside - can you do a Subtle One's Legacy? I have a player who plays one, but converting it's been difficult for him.

        ... As well as basically every Legacy from Summoners? >.> LOL Joking, though the legacies in Summoners -were- pretty boss, particularly the Moros one that involved summoning the shades of dead heroes viking style (also the spirit one, but that one to a lesser extent - mostly because it gave you influences, which was awesome playing in 1e >.>)
        wodcodex.com tells me that the Subtle Ones are in Mage 1e core, which I don't have... But I do have Summoners pdf! I'll put them in my to-do list. Which now becomes:
        • Tamers of Rivers
        • Bokor
        • Tamers of Stone
        • Tamers of the Cave
        • Thrice Great
        • Eyes of Ain Soph
        • Cloud Infinite
        • Subtle Ones
        • Choir of Hashmallim
        • Concord of Serpents
        • Katsinam Suukya
        • People of the Hour
        • Stygian Heralds
        • The Legion


        MtAw Homebrew:
        Even more Legacies, updated to 2E
        New 2E Legacies, expanded

        Comment


        • Sweet. If it helps, I don't know if I can send you the Subtle Ones word for word but I can probably summarize and give the cliffnotes of them for you?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Jakondite View Post
            Sweet. If it helps, I don't know if I can send you the Subtle Ones word for word but I can probably summarize and give the cliffnotes of them for you?
            I do have their 1e Attainments and Oblations, courtesy of Hardwire99. They seem like the "face in the crowd" type of spies. I also heard that they're somewhat related to the Ahl-i-Batin (spelling?) from Ascension, but I'm not well-versed in WoD lore.

            While I of course would like input of any kind, I have to tell you that it might take days, even weeks for me to get to them, since I have seven Legacies in front of the Invisible Men. So I might not be of much help in your immediate concerns.


            MtAw Homebrew:
            Even more Legacies, updated to 2E
            New 2E Legacies, expanded

            Comment


            • Kind of loosely but still... Not... really. I mean they are -called- the Ahl-i-Batin, or the People of the Inner truth, but they have very little correlating between them and the Ahl-i-Batin of the oWoD - at least from what I remember. The oWoD Ahl-i-Batin were very much 'Entropy is bad, everything is connected' where the Subtle Ones are basically the stars of Assassin's creed. In fact, they literally were the people behind the Order of the Assassins and tied the whole 'nothing-is-true, everything-is-permitted' thing in there as an example of the amorality of the legacy as a whole.

              They tend to be an influence society from the shadows kind of group.

              Comment


              • I feel that thematic is best in this case, you have mad very good decisions thus far and I am sure you will continue to do so. I can get you anything that you need so just let me know how I can help. If you have an account on RPG Drivethru just let me know in a PM and you just might find some stuff gifted to you, might.

                Comment


                • 21C Hermit, I only want to write you make a hell lot of good work! And as you go into Tamers area - to point that in 2E Tamers are one of biggest Nameless Order ever and by this, they can be treated as Legacies Order in Parentage section of individual write-ups.


                  My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
                  LGBT+ through Ages
                  LGBT+ in CoD games

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                    Guest, I only want to write you make a hell lot of good work! And as you go into Tamers area - to point that in 2E Tamers are one of biggest Nameless Order ever and by this, they can be treated as Legacies Order in Parentage section of individual write-ups.
                    The Tamers aren't a unified order, and most of them are in the regular Orders. They essentially maintain a loose cross-Order fraternity.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post

                      Yup. Speaking of which, I should also make the dot-instead-of-point option also be Withstood. Will fix just a moment later.
                      Remember that most people have more Health than Willpower, and that they can fill it up three times before they actually die, while people tend to use up their Willpower points. Also, quick NPCs can also have simplified WP pools. I'd say Withstand is in order.


                      Writer for Bloodlines: The Ageless on STV
                      Some other stuff I've done: Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
                        The Tamers aren't a unified order, and most of them are in the regular Orders. They essentially maintain a loose cross-Order fraternity.
                        Nameless groups from what those Legacies arise would not agree with that statetment. More, 2E corebook and DaveB do not agree with this stantance.

                        Originally posted by MtAw, p.203
                        Cousins of the Tamers of Fire, the Tamers of Blood find less hospitality among the Orders. Experts in the symbolism of blood and the magic of sympathy, members make a living among Nameless Orders and apostates advising on their special- ties. When their clients learn that the Legacy can control the bodies of those it takes blood samples from, they quickly move
                        on. (Space) (Left Handed)
                        Originally posted by Dave Brookshaw View Post
                        The interrelated “Elemental Tamer” Legacies claim descent from the Barbarian Kingdoms of legend rather than Atlantis. Before the industrial revolution they made up the largest Nameless order. Since the Great Refusal, most of the surviving Legacies have found a place in the Pentacle, but some still find the alliance uncomfortable. The Tamers of Blood were once one of the most prominent Tamer sects. A Thyrsus Legacy specializing in Life and Space, the Tamers of Blood are famous for their
                        talent with body control, but the Pentacle is more concerned with another side to their attainments. Legacy members have the ability to forge powerful sympathetic bonds between people by ritually comingling blood, can use their attainments on anyone they have bonded as easily as on themselves, and are accused of not disclosing the level of control this gives over their clients until it’s too late. The Tamers remain trapped as neither loyalists nor apostates, drawn in toward the Pentacle by their more respectable cousins but keeping a wary distance in case they are declared Left-Handed,.
                        Most Tamers maybe now members of Pentacle, but this does not change they originally were Nameless Order and should be treated as such for Legacy propose. They are still people that follows this Nameless traditions.

                        Most logical would be make each Tamer Legacy dual Order - 'Tamers Order or <Pentacle Order> - Like Tamers of Fire would be in Parentage: 'Obrimos, Tamers Order or Adamantine Arrow', for example.


                        My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
                        LGBT+ through Ages
                        LGBT+ in CoD games

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                          Most logical would be make each Tamer Legacy dual Order - 'Tamers Order or <Pentacle Order> - Like Tamers of Fire would be in Parentage: 'Obrimos, Tamers Order or Adamantine Arrow', for example.
                          I don't really agree. The Tamers were organised in a radically different way to the Pentacle. You don't join the Tamers and then choose a legacy. You gain entrance to the Order by joining one of the member legacies.

                          'course, that depends how much Dave wants to change them as the Tamers kinda suffer a lot from the rewriting of the setting.


                          Comment


                          • I'm kinda running with the assumption that the Elemental Masteries are a Nameless Order who fully accept, even encourage, dual membership with the Pentacle's Orders. As a tangent, here's how I'd build them:


                            Nameless Order: The Elemental Masteries

                            The Elemental Masteries, formally called the Bearers of the Elemental Mark, are one of the largest Nameless Orders and arguably the oldest as well. They trace their historical and cultural origins back to the Hellenistic era, when Alexander the Great ruled, being descended from sorcerers following Greek traditions.
                            The Bearers maintain a complex relationship with the Diamond. On one hand, the Elemental Masteries pride themselves as keepers of ancient wisdom and lore. On the other hand, this solitary focus on a single culture stymmied their development into a fully global Order, and so the Bearers had to ride the coattails of Diamond schema as peripheries of the Awakened City. The advent of the Free Council, who exalt human culture as being magical on its own, was welcomed and supported by many Bearers. By connecting with the Free Council the Elemental Masteries reconnected themselves to the Diamond and absorbed the "Tamer" Legacies of foreign cultures, elevating themselves above the common Nameless Orders.

                            Systems: Membership in the Elemental Masteries do not require initiation into the "Tamer" Legacies, nor is it exclusive with Order Status in the major Orders. However, the other Orders may look askance at such dual allegiances, and deny full participation and Status depending on circumstances.
                            Benefits of membership are tracked as the Mystery Cult Initiation Merit, with the dot rating doubling as Status in the Elemental Masteries. Using this Status in foreign grounds reduce its effective rating, from -1 up to -3 depending on how far the mage is removed from her home city.

                            : A good portion of the ancient lore that the Elemental Masteries pride themselves in were passed down in tomes of High Speech, and so even new recruits quickly learn to speak and utilize it. The Bearer gains the High Speech Merit.

                            ••: The Elemental Masteries may not have global infrastructure, but they are still spread all over the world and form a network of information. The Bearer gains the Contacts (Elemental Masteries) Merit. Also, her Nimbus changes so that she may at will display a pattern known as the Elemental Mark, used by the Bearers to identify each other.

                            ••: As a long-standing Nameless Order, the Elemental Masteries boast generations of Rotes and passed down wisdom. The Bearer now benefits from Order Rote Skills from the Elemental Masteries: Academics, Occult, and Science. If the Bearer has not yet joined a Legacy, he will likely be offered initiation by a mentor from one of the elemental "Tamer" Legacies.

                            ••: To connect with fellow Bearers over large distances, the Elemental sorcerers emphasized use of the Astral as meeting grounds. The Bearer gains the Astral Adept Merit. She also instinctually learns the location of the Temenotic realm of the Elemental Masteries.

                            ••••: At this point the Bearer is brimming with elemental power, having become a master of the elements. He gains a variant of the Cabal Theme Merit, aligned with Elemental symbolism, that grants two dots instead of one in the Shadow Name Merit, for purposes of Yantras. Also, his cabal mates enjoy an instance of the usual Cabal Theme Merit of the same symbolism without purchasing it, as long as the Bearer is within their sensory range. Their benefits disappear when the Bearer leaves sensory range or leaves the cabal, and this is not subject to Sanctity of Merits.
                            Last edited by 21C Hermit; 05-04-2017, 10:53 PM. Reason: formatting


                            MtAw Homebrew:
                            Even more Legacies, updated to 2E
                            New 2E Legacies, expanded

                            Comment


                            • Generally, I like your take on Elemental Masteries as Nameless Order. I have only few places to point in here...

                              Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                              The Elemental Masteries, formally called the Bearers of the Elemental Mark, are one of the largest Nameless Orders and arguably the oldest as well. They trace their historical and cultural origins back to the Hellenistic era, when Alexander the Great ruled, being descended from sorcerers following Greek traditions.
                              (...) On the other hand, this solitary focus on a single culture stymmied their development into a fully global Order, and so the Bearers had to ride the coattails of Diamond schema as peripheries of the Awakened City. (...) By connecting with the Free Council the Elemental Masteries reconnected themselves to the Diamond and absorbed the "Tamer" Legacies of foreign cultures, elevating themselves above the common Nameless Orders.
                              Tamers ARE coalition of Nameless Legacies around the world. Pointing to the Blood alone, you can see they clearly represent older teachings and interpretations of Paths. I would agree that as Nameless Order group they were created in Alexander exchange times, but each Legacy was his own thing long before it. Tamers 'spring up' whenever they are, somehow reflecting universal principles with local occult flavor.

                              Originally posted by Legacies: The Ancient, p. 27
                              The Five Masteries, and the Others
                              The five Elemental Masteries presented here work their magic within the context of several thousand years of history spent in Western Europe (and, hence, post-colonial America). The symbolism they use to describe themselves is very much borne out of a Western Tradition.
                              But it’s just window dressing in the end. There are, for example, Tamers of Rivers who draw their symbolism and magical practices from Native American culture. There are Tamers of Fire whose magic comes from the foundations of Chinese mysticism. There are Tamers of Winds among the tribal peoples of Central Africa, and Tamers of the Cave in Australia who still work with the shamanic practices of the Koori people.
                              Their powers are strikingly similar across the world; only the terms in which they express their magic differ from one culture’s version of a Tamer to another.
                              (...)
                              Among the mages of the Far East, there are still rare examples of Tamers of Trees and Tamers of Iron, for example. Although few mages have met a Tamer of Ice or a Tamer of Rain, a few of each still apparently practice their works in regions covered by the former USSR. More elusive still are the Tamers of Light, who manipulate the very light of the sun, somewhere in South America, and the Tamers of Sand, who still practice their crafts in the remotest corners of the Australian Outback.
                              Tamers, technically. are global Nameless Order - they are just too few in memebers to be on the scale of Diamond and Seers. And, well, they are still officially Nameless.

                              Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                              : A good portion of the ancient lore that the Elemental Masteries pride themselves in were passed down in tomes of High Speech, and so even new recruits quickly learn to speak and utilize it. The Bearer gains the High Speech Merit.
                              What about character that had High Speech BEFORE joining Elemental Masteries Order?


                              My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
                              LGBT+ through Ages
                              LGBT+ in CoD games

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                                Generally, I like your take on Elemental Masteries as Nameless Order. I have only few places to point in here...



                                Tamers ARE coalition of Nameless Legacies around the world. Pointing to the Blood alone, you can see they clearly represent older teachings and interpretations of Paths. I would agree that as Nameless Order group they were created in Alexander exchange times, but each Legacy was his own thing long before it. Tamers 'spring up' whenever they are, somehow reflecting universal principles with local occult flavor.



                                Tamers, technically. are global Nameless Order - they are just too few in memebers to be on the scale of Diamond and Seers. And, well, they are still officially Nameless.
                                My idea was that while the individual Tamer Legaciesare all over the world and ancient, but the Nameless Order that formed as a coalition of them isn't. Here, what would later become the Elemental Masteries first formed in Hellenistic areas by the five Tamers who work on Classical interpretations of the elements. Meanwhile, there were Tamer Legacies in other regions of the area who probably didn't even know that there were other sorcerers in the world who Tamed other elements (or even the same element) like they did. Later on the Elemental Masteries hooked up with the Free Council, globalized themselves, and finally got in touch with all the rest of the Tamers in the world. Similar to what the darshanas and the Diamond did as they globalized, but much later.


                                What about character that had High Speech BEFORE joining Elemental Masteries Order?
                                ... Hmm. Good point. That missed my mind. Any ideas?


                                MtAw Homebrew:
                                Even more Legacies, updated to 2E
                                New 2E Legacies, expanded

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X