[2ed] Legacy experiment: Infernal Ones

[CTPhipps]

Indefinite Duration? I'm not convinced. That requires two Reach and a penalty of ten. Legacy Attainments cannot overReach their dot rating. The factors cannot take a penalty higher than the minimum Arcanum rating included. How would you achieve an indefinite Duration?

Thread necromancy.

[Excess]

Fifth: Hell Mansion
Prerequisites: Spirit 5, Occult 5
This act like "Spirit Manse", with Potency of 5 and Indefinite Duration. The Manse has a Bane, any holy item placed in it's center collapses the place. The mage needs a week to prepare his Spirit Manse(at least 6 hours of work per day), but it's duration is Indefinite. Suffice to say that, after having warped your soul this far, your manse will be completely Hellish in nature, but you feel really confortable there.
Optional: Space 5
This replicate "Co-location". With Reach assigned to immediate activation, visible overlapping and to set a Key for the use of the overlap.

Indefinite Duration? I'm not convinced. That requires two Reach and a penalty of ten. Legacy Attainments cannot overReach their dot rating. The factors cannot take a penalty higher than the minimum Arcanum rating included. How would you achieve an indefinite Duration?

[Horodrigo]

Instead, Co-Locate wherever you're in with the Manse. That way, even if you get out...
Edit: Slightly better idea, make it work like Lair Traits in Beast.

I'm gonna buy Beast soon. Them I'll take a look at Lair Traits.

For now, I updated the descriptions of the Legacy.

[Justin Sane]

Optional: Not inspired in any rote on the book. But thinking about Unmaking the Gauntlet in an area to bleed the Spirit Manse into the reality and bring the mage personal hell to earth.

Suggestions?

Instead, Co-Locate wherever you're in with the Manse. That way, even if you get out...
Edit: Slightly better idea, make it work like Lair Traits in Beast.

[Horodrigo]

Guys, thanks to you all, we are going really fast with the development.

Ok, so far is something among these lines:

1st: Exorcist Eyes, but it can also see Infernal Demons and Possessed NPCs.
Optional: Space magic let him feel Irises with P. Mage Sight.

2nd: Channel Essence, to feed spirits with corrupted Essence of Sin.
Optional: Borrow Threads to steal wifes and commit sins and etc.

3rd: Spirit Summons, summon an avatar(Rank 5) of one of the 9 demon lords to bargain for Infernal Pacts, without the sacrifice from page 94 of Inferno book, other prices for the services still count.
Optional: Ban for making an area to bind the spirits, so they can't use their influences on the mage, useful for when you have summoned aa avatar and pissed him off with stupid bargains.

4th: Craft Fetish, for creating cool infernal artifacts and make use of it's influences to reshape the local landscape to something hellish.
Optional: Teleportation, only on the mage and he can teleport to some places in the Shadows where the Inferno has great influence, but not to Hell, cause it's impossible to escape Hell with magic once you're in.

5th: Spirit Manse, to make a cool hellish realm and stuff like that.
Optional: Not inspired in any rote on the book. But thinking about Unmaking the Gauntlet in an area to bleed the Spirit Manse into the reality and bring the mage personal hell to earth.

Suggestions?

[Mrmdubois]

Since Infernal Demons follow the rules from spirit beings, I'll use the suggestion from Axel. But thanks for the suggestion. I really didn't knew that normal spirits can also make pacts like that.

Yeah, I mean specifically the Pact system from Summoners, but I think it's the same or very similar to the one in Infernal. Anyway, youthfulness is certainly within the purview of some ephemeral beings. Infernal demons by the way use spirit rules, but they aren't spirits (Except when they are).

Adding onto what Axelgear said I'd make the highest rank Infernal you can summon be 5 like what happens with Supernal entities.

Jakondite has a good idea with Perfect Sympathy.

[Jakondite]

You could create a ban as a sort of binding circle for the entities that you summon with the other attainment in order to operate safely? Or utilize perfect sympathy to better work against people - man an demon - and convince them to operate to your will.

[Tessie]

Normally Ban covers everything within the target area. You can specifically target a phenomenon so that Ban only applies to the specified phenomenon, or Ban everything except a specific phenomenon. But in order to do so you need to include the Arcanum/Arcana that governs that phenomenon. I believe that would be impossible to do with Paradox except if the character is a Scelestus and you use the Abyssal Arcanum homebrew. By RAW it should be completely impossible to target Paradox.

[Horodrigo]

Grab a spirit of youthfulness, make a pact.

Since Infernal Demons follow the rules from spirit beings, I'll use the suggestion from Axel. But thanks for the suggestion. I really didn't knew that normal spirits can also make pacts like that.

The first two attainments look good, but I'd tweak the third one. Do something extreme and give him the ability to conjure Infernal entities in the same way others conjure Supernal beings. Make them big and imposing things. These would be the big Inferno spirits; the legendary lords of hellfire. Things he can bargain with for eternal youth and beauty, that sort of thing.

Literally excellent.

Edit: Also, I'm not sure you can apply a Ban to Paradox. I mean... What Arcana would it use?

Err... mea culpa. I used Ban, from Space 3. Don't know if it's possible to literally Ban paradox. I literally don't know what to do with Space here.

[Axelgear]

Well, we got the suggestion A.

Until now, the Attainments are:

1st: Exorcist Eyes, but it can also see Infernal Demons and Possessed NPCs.
Optional: Space magic let him feel Irises with P. Mage Sight.

2nd: Channel Essence, to feed spirits with corrupted Essence of Sin.
Optional: Borrow Threads to steal wifes and commit sins and etc.

3rd: Spirit Summons, only spirits that ressonate with one of the 7 sins can be summoned.
Optional: Ban paradox from an area, making it manifest itself outside the affected area.

Thoughts?

The player still wants some method of having eternal youth. Can a Spirit just give this to him?

The first two attainments look good, but I'd tweak the third one. Do something extreme and give him the ability to conjure Infernal entities in the same way others conjure Supernal beings. Make them big and imposing things. These would be the big Inferno spirits; the legendary lords of hellfire. Things he can bargain with for eternal youth and beauty, that sort of thing.

Edit: Also, I'm not sure you can apply a Ban to Paradox. I mean... What Arcana would it use?

[Mrmdubois]

He don't want to be immortal. Just to not age until he dies. Like, live his 90 or something years looking like a guy with 28.

Grab a spirit of youthfulness, make a pact.

[Horodrigo]

Sort of, Scions of God use Spirit to become immortal, but that makes them spirits and their nature and appearance may remain the same at first, but will likely drift over time.

He don't want to be immortal. Just to not age until he dies. Like, live his 90 or something years looking like a guy with 28.

[Mrmdubois]

Sort of, Scions of God use Spirit to become immortal, but that makes them spirits and their nature and appearance may remain the same at first, but will likely drift over time.

[Horodrigo]

Well, we got the suggestion A.

Until now, the Attainments are:

1st: Exorcist Eyes, but it can also see Infernal Demons and Possessed NPCs.
Optional: Space magic let him feel Irises with P. Mage Sight.

2nd: Channel Essence, to feed spirits with corrupted Essence of Sin.
Optional: Borrow Threads to steal wifes and commit sins and etc.

3rd: Spirit Summons, only spirits that ressonate with one of the 7 sins can be summoned.
Optional: Ban paradox from an area, making it manifest itself outside the affected area.

Thoughts?

The player still wants some method of having eternal youth. Can a Spirit just give this to him?

[Axelgear]

The reason blending both doesn't work is because one is focused on recreating the Time Before while the other is focused on getting back to it. Not the most exact wording but you get the idea. While they might appear similar in practice, the way they understand the thing they're doing is crucially different. One is trying to rebuild a broken world, while the other is trying to undo its breaking in the first place, if you get my meanings.

That affects how the character sees magic; how they see their goals; how they see their Legacy. It's important that be consistent.

And, yeah, I wasn't suggesting the Abyss and Inferno are the same; the second idea was to drop the Inferno in favour of the Abyss. Go full Scelestus.