Arcanum and the Infernal

[WelshBoi]

Hey guys,

After re-reading my copy of Inferno I'm now quite set on introducing a little Infernal into my mage chronicle and would be greatly appreciative of any words of wisdom from Storytellers who've already done so.

So the "facts" (as they may be) ive so far gathered are:

1) True Infernal Demons (distinct from Deceptors, Immundi or Larvals) come from a lower depth lacking the component of "Virtue"

2) when brought into the Fallen World, Infernal Demon feed on the corruption and degradation of morals in order to sustain their existence

... yeah that's about it


What arcana would you guys have as necessary to affect an Infernal "demon"?

Prime has Ephemeral Enchantment at three dots but that just seems like Supernal Truth being the scissors to the paper of Lower Depths rather that the Infernal falling under the purview of prime. It does have Resonance which demons seem kinda dependant on though so i can't quite make up my mind.

Death has both Secrets and Entropy under its purview. this seems to fit quite nice with the infernal being utterly inscrutable and corrupting what they come in contact with, but this definitely doesn't feel like the whole story.

Mind with its ability to manipulate Virtue but more importantly Vice seems like it should be a piece of the puzzle. Its also conceptually tied to communication and demons have their dragon tongue.

Fate I can kinda jive with, Demons form pacts they are bound to uphold and can certainly grant blessings or curses.

Spirit I'm dubious about, it governs essence which Infernals use but that mostly seems tenuous. This is the subtle arcana i'm least sold on.

The various Gross arcana i can't really see the case for them to be included.

[Caladriu]

Maybe take another look at Spirit. If you dive into the 1E books, especially Summoners and Intruders, they seem pretty set on the idea that Spirit is what you use to affect ephemeral entities in general, even Abyssals.

[milo v3]

I'd have my players need mind considering how diaboli are created.

Also, I'd say they're from a place without Vice rather than a place without virtue since creatures from the lower depths are meant to desire the thing they lack.

Also because they don't actually do their vice themselves, they it's an external thing they try to get other people to do. For them to sin isn't a choice because they're basically made of evil, so it wouldn't act like a vice. But they instead try to get creatures with freewill to commit sins because then they actually can act as a vice.

Also, I can easily imagine the inferno as a place where you never ever have a chance to relax. You can't just laze about to leave your troubles behind, trouble is constant. You cannot let your temper run wild abit to destress, the stress will never end. Etc.

[Mrmdubois]

Infernals don't "run" on an arcana, so...

[FallenEco]

Depends on the demon; most Diaboli used to be a ghost or a spirit, so I would let those fall under the associated Arcarna, with an odd greasy feeling accompanying the magic unless invoking the malpraxis (then it is a hot, adrenaline spike that feels so damn good). But that is because I like to play with that sort of ideaDominions and Inferno natives...I'd probably use them as a Mystery the first time they show up. Akathartoi tend to be weird enough that unless you encountered one of that kind before, or went researching for them, you wouldn't reconsige them.

But as a defult, I'm going with Mind (+ Death as a conjunctional) for Inferno Natives and as a conjunctional for Rank 3+ Daiboli orginally covered by something else. Your interpretation says they lack Virtue (an emotional and behavioural element), after all.

[wyrdhamster]

I just run with ALL Infernal Demons are ex-Ephemerals, so they work under Arcana of their original kind ( Death for ex-ghosts, Spirit for ex-spirits, Mind for ex-goetia ).

[Tessie]

So infernals from their home realm would actually all originate from the regular realms?

[Mrmdubois]

So infernals from their home realm would actually all originate from the regular realms?

Makes sense, as a Lower Depth it has some Verges in the Shadow and presumably the Underworld and a normal ephemeral entity wouldn't be able to escape if they wandered in than any other kind of being (Which is to say not at all unless you go Infernal). The change could be a product of the environment more than because of the existence of "natives."

[Horodrigo]

Well, if you are interested in some legacies, I made one specially for dealing with the Demons from Inferno.

[malonkey1]

Infernals don't "run" on an arcana, so...

Everything "runs" on Arcana, even when they don't. Arcana are an expression of a Mage's understanding of the Supernal Truths that underly all of reality, even the Lower Realms.

Personally, Demons are creatures of sin and Vice, so I'd place their manipulation under Death (Integrity, Virtue and Vices are pretty closely tied to souls, governed by Death), or alternatively Spirit or Mind, to tie into the emotional and behavioral aspects. Spirit isn't strictly related to emotions, but I like to place raw, unconscious emotions under Spirit.

[Mrmdubois]

Everything "runs" on Arcana, even when they don't. Arcana are an expression of a Mage's understanding of the Supernal Truths that underly all of reality, even the Lower Realms.

Yes, obviously, what I mean is that they don't have a single arcana that governs them completely in the way that Death does for ghosts or Spirit does for spirits.

[malonkey1]

Yes, obviously, what I mean is that they don't have a single arcana that governs them completely in the way that Death does for ghosts or Spirit does for spirits.

AH. Okay, yeah, that's correct. They don't fit entirely into one Arcanum.

[Tessie]

Personally, Demons are creatures of sin and Vice, so I'd place their manipulation under Death (Integrity, Virtue and Vices are pretty closely tied to souls, governed by Death), or alternatively Spirit or Mind, to tie into the emotional and behavioral aspects. Spirit isn't strictly related to emotions, but I like to place raw, unconscious emotions under Spirit.

While Integrity and Anchors are affected by the soul (as evident by the three soul loss Conditions in GMC and MtA) at least the latter are not actually part of the soul. It's Mind Knowing to identify a person's Virtue and Vice as well as Mind for manipulating them by RAW.

Personally I'd put "pure" infernals under Mind while Diaboli might still require their original Arcana depending on what you're trying to do with them.