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  • Another Twilight question

    So this happened in one of my games:
    ​The PC who is a Moros confronted a Seer Mastigos on a ship. The Mastigos got the drop on him and opened a portal under his feet leading to a couple of kilometers above the Atlantic Ocean just outside the ship. The Moros is now falling to his certain death. Having 4 dots in Death and very negligible dots in other Arcana (nothing that would save him) I suggested two alternatives to avoid being crushed: 1) he casts Shadow Flesh which explicitly renders you immune to physical harm or 2) he enters into twilight, which also nullifies physical harm.

    ​He went for the Shadow Flesh, mainly because we were unsure of how exactly Twilight works. When in Twilight you are immune to harm from the material world barring some supernatural powers but I've got the impression that you are still bound by gravity. So, would entering Twilight in this situation cause him to fall down as normal and just land softly on the water below?

    Also, concerning water in Twilight; do you still need to breathe? Will you sink into the water and drown even in Twilight?
    Last edited by Aristarkos; 04-14-2017, 05:03 AM.

  • #2
    ...I am pretty sure there are equivalents to the ground and water in the Twilight state, (almost literally the same thing), but I am vague on such exact details because for the most part, things in Twilight don't drown. Pretty sure those that can't fly/hover can take fall damage though.

    Will consult my libary and return.

    Thoughts ripple out, birthing others


    • #3
      I think you're able to pass through most solids other than the floor. You might be able to float down through a floor to a lower floor, but I've never really seen much description of the limitations of twilight beings. I have wanted to answer a similar question to myself once, which was how high can ghosts and spirits float, and the best I found was that they can hover above the ground, especially if it would not make sense for them to walk or crawl, but they usually cannot get higher than I guess the average size of a human. Like a paraplegic ghost or a Spirit that manifests as a ball of light will both just sort of float but they won't be soaring through the skies unless their twilight form has some sort of sensible propulsion for that---wings or something.

      Even in real life people who believe in ghosts and stuff associate them with water, or the idea that water will make them more powerful. I personally think your Moros would just sort of float over the water, but go into the water if they wanted to. The ghost of a drowning victim might never breach the surface except to drag people down, but I do not think that's a "physical" limitation for them so much as a behavioral one.

      I think the simplest answer is to use movie logic--don't use actual logic for how ghosts and twilight being's behave. Make them behave by movie logic, how you would expect these things to act in a movie. If a ghost cannot go through a wall in a movie it's usually funny right? But a ghost that can get to a higher floor without using the stairs and you don't see how it got up to the same floor as you can be wonderfully creepy. Then, for a Moros mage, you just cut out the creep factor and let them understand what is going on from under the hood--but they still won't have any limitations you'd only see in a comedy/horror, but they'll still have whatever powers would make them scary as hell to sleepers.

      How's that sound?


      • #4
        Just like a ghost in Twilight can pass through walls water poses no physical obstruction. Also, you're ephemeral, breathing is a habit you can break.


        • #5
          Was the Moros able to see the portal with space magic or the did Seer use the reach to allow anybody to see the portal, co-location portal says "Anybody capable of perceiving the portal may pass through" not will pass through. I dont quite understand how not seeing the portal means you cant pass through it tbh, but seeing it you "may" pass through, does using a portal require an act of will just like swapping areas with co-location? Should probably ask this in the simple question thread too, it just came up as i was explaining co-location to a friend the other day and this post reminded me of it.

          1e portal didnt let things pass through them like water (i also thing people got a roll if they didnt want to go through one too) if a portal was put on the ocean floor, is this still the same in 2e?

          It says there is no gravity in twilight but flight is only available to creatures with the appropriate form, so id say he'd just keep going at whatever speed he was when he entered twilight? From Werewolf "
          0px; "> Spirits in Twilight can move at walking pace in any direction. Gravity has no sway, though a spirit can only truly “fly” if it’s appropriate for its form — most hug the material terrain.
          Last edited by totalgit; 04-14-2017, 07:01 AM.


          • #6
            Spirits aren't Ghosts, and this is a case of 'deathly/ghostly' Twilight.

            Thoughts ripple out, birthing others


            • #7
              Originally posted by FallenEco View Post
              Spirits aren't Ghosts, and this is a case of 'deathly/ghostly' Twilight.
              That doesn't really change anything from what's been discussed.


              • #8
                Spirits are not Ghosts, but they are ephemerals. Still, it does make a few questions for me too---in the Shadow, gravity is caused by Helios, a sort of anti-gravity. Does that mean that gravity has a partial effect on spirits anyway? I mean when they're in the material world. I guess you won't have long to find out--a spirit will try to fetter itself and ghost's are loathe to drift from their anchor lest they get essence bleed. Angels have Propulsions to get around so they're covered.

                And then it makes me think where "gravity" comes from in the Underworld if the hisil does not have gravity and relies on Helios to generate it. Does like the Underworld have gravity? Perhaps... a super gravity?

                It sounds like to me that twilight beings irregardless of type will respond to the resonance of gravity, irregardless of which way that gravity should flow. In this, I'm guessing that the gravitational resonance is caused by normal human's perception of how gravity should behave, building the resonance on instinct instead of physical, verifiable laws.


                • #9
                  The Underworld does have the pull to lower Dead Domains and the Ocean of Fragments. What's to say that pull isn't physical as well?

                  Writer for Bloodlines: The Ageless on STV
                  Some other stuff I've done: Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by FallenEco View Post
                    Spirits aren't Ghosts, and this is a case of 'deathly/ghostly' Twilight.
                    "> Movement through Twilight roughly corresponds to that
                    of the material world, even though there is no gravity, wind,
                    or pressure. Flight is not possible unless appropriate for the
                    entity’s form; a fiery-winged Goetia might take to the sky, but a
                    clattering, rusting spirit of metal will stick to the material terrain
                    The txt in the mage game doesnt mention the different wavelenths of twilight either. Its probably true that ghosts wont really ever pick up the ability to fly tho, unless theres some ghostly plane around

                    The fact that most Ephemerals stick to the ground and use that for movement suggests that the ground is solid for them most of the time but that they can decide to move through it? I would say that if you were to impact it at speed you'd take at least some damage and since ghosts at sea can probably move in all directions in the water easily enough so i would say that you fall into the water in twilight (maybe taking some small damage even if its just imaginary or some form of shock tilt) and are then able to slow yourself down once in the water.

                    Hmm that might be a good answer, you take no damage but take some form of tilt that reflects the fact you expected to take damage oryour mind just assumes you do.
                    Last edited by totalgit; 04-15-2017, 12:06 AM.