Reflexive spells

[Aristarkos]

Several spells include a reach option to pay mana in order to cast the spell reflexively, other spells don't.

Is there a certain rule of thumb behind what spells you can do this with or not?

[projectmoon]

It's 2 Reach and a point of Mana to cast reflexively, but this isn't allowed in normal circumstances. It seems to be usable in situations where a reflexive action would fit into the spell:

• Suppress Life: You could cast it reflexively to make it look like someone suddenly died from some probably cause, even though they're still alive.
• Exceptional Luck: Put a boon or hex on someone, and luck tends to be a "spontaneous" thing, a "sudden twist of [F]ate" as it were.

I think these are the only two spells in the book that allow this Reach option.

[Moinen]

I for contrast allow it for all spells but with restriction that you can only cast one spell per turn.
Want to run and cast behind you? Pay 2 Reach and Mana. Hit someone with lightning-fist? Same. It allows players to act more without disbalancing gameplay. They still can cast only one spell and have to pay for it but its more fun this way.
You can e.g. throw yourself with Forces across the rooftop gap or jump and glide in the same turn.

[totalgit]

I for contrast allow it for all spells but with restriction that you can only cast one spell per turn.
Want to run and cast behind you? Pay 2 Reach and Mana. Hit someone with lightning-fist? Same. It allows players to act more without disbalancing gameplay. They still can cast only one spell and have to pay for it but its more fun this way.
You can e.g. throw yourself with Forces across the rooftop gap or jump and glide in the same turn.

How does this work with initiative? 2 reach and a mana and you can act first in a round? What if two people do it? You allow reflexive spell casting & shooting somebody? Personally id not allow it unless printed in the spell.

[Moinen]

How does this work with initiative? 2 reach and a mana and you can act first in a round? What if two people do it? You allow reflexive spell casting & shooting somebody? Personally id not allow it unless printed in the spell.

It would make a nice CoW, spellslinger style. My players don't abuse it too much since its costly, but if you need some structure make it that you can only do it in your action and make it semi reflexive. I allow for reflexive spell casting and shooting, yes, it's more fun.
I'm mentioning it clearly as a hack. One that you could find in Mage: Storyteller's Guide or something.

Edit: O. And they don't get to employ any Yantra since there is no time. So try to cast Psychic Domination with 7 Reach (3 base from spell to actually kill; 1 instant; 1 sensory; 2 from reflexive) and 1 Mana on top of that which leaves with only 1 more Mana to mitigate paradox, all of that in the first turn of combat. Good luck with that.
I prefer to say 'Yes, but...' instead of 'No'. And this particular hack works nice at my table.

[Aristarkos]

It would make a nice CoW, spellslinger style. My players don't abuse it too much since its costly, but if you need some structure make it that you can only do it in your action and make it semi reflexive. I allow for reflexive spell casting and shooting, yes, it's more fun.
I'm mentioning it clearly as a hack. One that you could find in Mage: Storyteller's Guide or something.

Edit: O. And they don't get to employ any Yantra since there is no time. So try to cast Psychic Domination with 7 Reach (3 base from spell to actually kill; 1 instant; 1 sensory; 2 from reflexive) and 1 Mana on top of that which leaves with only 1 more Mana to mitigate paradox, all of that in the first turn of combat. Good luck with that.
I prefer to say 'Yes, but...' instead of 'No'. And this particular hack works nice at my table.

Affirmative, I shall implement it as well. Thanks a lot!

[Johnny Awesome]

"Reactions" as allowed in D&D 5e are something one of my play groups is going to miss when I run Mage for them next year.

For instance, Misty Step is a 2nd level Mage spell that allows you to teleport 30 feet if you are attacked as a Reaction, which doesn't burn your action. This would be difficult to model in Mage without some form of Reflexive spellcasting. You could probably model it as Space 3 w/ + 2 Reach w/Mana with the suggestions here.

Also, the fact that Counterspell takes your action definitely makes spells more deadly, probably by design.

[EW-Matias]

"Reactions" as allowed in D&D 5e are something one of my play groups is going to miss when I run Mage for them next year.

For instance, Misty Step is a 2nd level Mage spell that allows you to teleport 30 feet if you are attacked as a Reaction, which doesn't burn your action. This would be difficult to model in Mage without some form of Reflexive spellcasting. You could probably model it as Space 3 w/ + 2 Reach w/Mana with the suggestions here.

Also, the fact that Counterspell takes your action definitely makes spells more deadly, probably by design.

I think that it would be ok to allow the existing Reflexive cast reach option to the Teleportation spell.

[arthexis]

I personally dislike the idea of having reflexive spells at all. Instead what I've created are spells that do something useful when they "end". This way, you need to have the spell already on and prepared, and then you can "collapse" it reflexively to make something happen. This is also explicitly laid out in fiction, as there are examples of mages setting up traps and tricks to trigger when a spell ends to allow them more casting flexibility.

For example, this is one of my spells: Present as Past

Practice: Patterning Cost: 1 Mana This spell pushes a subject into the future a few seconds ahead of the objective present, without fully breaking their connection to the present. For the spell's Duration, the subject is considered to be moving one turn ahead of everyone else. When the spell ends, the subject returns to the present. To represent this mechanically, the mage can reflexively end the spell to know the actions that will be taken during the next turn by anyone that they can perceive (and this includes those they will be able to perceive in that future turn even if they are currently hidden in the present). Both players and Storyteller must declare truthfully what those actions would be at that moment.

[EW-Matias]

I personally dislike the idea of having reflexive spells at all. Instead what I've created are spells that do something useful when they "end". This way, you need to have the spell already on and prepared, and then you can "collapse" it reflexively to make something happen. This is also explicitly laid out in fiction, as there are examples of mages setting up traps and tricks to trigger when a spell ends to allow them more casting flexibility.

For example, this is one of my spells: Present as Past

Practice: Patterning Cost: 1 Mana This spell pushes a subject into the future a few seconds ahead of the objective present, without fully breaking their connection to the present. For the spell's Duration, the subject is considered to be moving one turn ahead of everyone else. When the spell ends, the subject returns to the present. To represent this mechanically, the mage can reflexively end the spell to know the actions that will be taken during the next turn by anyone that they can perceive (and this includes those they will be able to perceive in that future turn even if they are currently hidden in the present). Both players and Storyteller must declare truthfully what those actions would be at that moment.

That's what Conditional Duration on Hung Spell is for, though.

[Mrmdubois]

That's what Conditional Duration on Hung Spell is for, though.

Technically, no it’s not. That would impose a new spell as the Hung Spell ends, arthexis is talking about a spell that benefits you when everything is turned to the non magical status quo.

[arthexis]

Mrmdubois is correct. You benefit from spell's lack of ontological inertia, by causing the sudden change back to regular physics to do some work for you.

In fact, Hung Spell is just one spell that uses the principle as it "holds" a spell in a timeless moment and releases it when it ends. Temporal Stutter works the same way.

Think about casting a levitation spell to keep something suspended in the air, and when it ends, it comes crashing down, releasing potential energy.

[thenate]

The classic trick of car BBs fits this idea quite well; Use a slingshot for good range.

(You use a spell to reduce a big heavy object to a tiny light one and put it over an enemy. You then drop the effect and crush them. If you saw Ant Man, you know Evangeline Lilly is purty. You also understand this trick.)

[EW-Matias]

I was referring to "spells that benefit you when they end" as a substitute for reflexive casting and the "traps and tricks" when a spell ends. The specific spell is just an overcomplicated version of Shifting Sands.

[Mrmdubois]

I was referring to "spells that benefit you when they end" as a substitute for reflexive casting and the "traps and tricks" when a spell ends. The specific spell is just an overcomplicated version of Shifting Sands.

No one is talking about the specific spell, it’s an example of something that may be similar to, but isn’t necessarily substituted by a conditional duration Hung Spell.