Archmages Vs Other Supernaturals

[Enderdragon1201]

I was wondering, are any of the other supernaturals (vampires, werewolves, demons, etc.) capable of taking on archmages? I'm of course talking about the more powerful members with power stats at 6+ dots and lots of their respective powers . If so, which ones are and which ones aren't?

[Michael]

I was wondering, are any of the other supernaturals (vampires, werewolves, demons, etc.) capable of taking on archmages? I'm of course talking about the more powerful members with power stats at 6+ dots and lots of their respective powers . If so, which ones are and which ones aren't?

Not really. Archmasters aren't just Gnosis 6+, they're essentially a modifed template quite distinct to normal magi. The usual formulation is an archmaster is to a mage as a mage is to a sleeper.

[totalgit]

I was wondering, are any of the other supernaturals (vampires, werewolves, demons, etc.) capable of taking on archmages? I'm of course talking about the more powerful members with power stats at 6+ dots and lots of their respective powers . If so, which ones are and which ones aren't?

There is talk in the 1e Imperial Mysteries book of sponsor entities who rival Archmasters in power that protect the various other supers from Archmasters tampering but they arnt stat'd. Rank 6+ spirits have imperial magic like abilities in their respective influences, so they can probably hold their own vs a unprepared Archmaster who hasnt managed to prepare for a IM spell.

Any playable template has no real hope.

[Malus]

I was wondering, are any of the other supernaturals (vampires, werewolves, demons, etc.) capable of taking on archmages? I'm of course talking about the more powerful members with power stats at 6+ dots and lots of their respective powers . If so, which ones are and which ones aren't?

You could have an archmaster as the antagonist of a chronicle, focusing on twarting the gathering of quintessences for his imperial spells and thus the agents he uses to subvert the pax arcana subtly. In a straight conflict? without fiat such as the sponsorship of the above mentioned entities or other opposed archmasters using your characters as their own agents, the conflict would boil down to being obliterated by imperial praxes.

[xiongrey]

What would an Arch master level Chronicle even look like?

[Vent0]

What would an Arch master level Chronicle even look like?

Nobilis? Stuff blowing up? Wiki wars (but with reality)?

[Ever Professional]

There are Incarnate Beasts, who are the archmage equivalent of the Beast line, and in the werewolf settings of the core book there is a werewolf that was able to be the totem of a lodge, so I believe it is implied that he reached a similar level of power.

I thought the vampire Methuselahs in 1000 years of night was going to be their equivalent, but that wasn't actually the case. I also remember in the Book of the Dead a sineater was starting to become a Kerborei (I just know that is spelled wrong). Not sure about changelings and the other splats.

[Enderdragon1201]

There are Incarnate Beasts, who are the archmage equivalent of the Beast line, and in the werewolf settings of the core book there is a werewolf that was able to be the totem of a lodge, so I believe it is implied that he reached a similar level of power.

I thought the vampire Methuselahs in 1000 years of night was going to be their equivalent, but that wasn't actually the case. I also remember in the Book of the Dead a sineater was starting to become a Kerborei (I just know that is spelled wrong). Not sure about changelings and the other splats.

Well, I know that in 1E a changeling could potentially become a True Fae if they got Wyrd 10 and went to the Hedge, so I suppose that would be their equivalent.

[Dusksage]

Before counting Elder Vampires out remember this: Nothing in Imperial Mysteries says Archmasters can't be blood bound.

Also fun side note: A personal favorite fan theory if mine is that the Fog of Eternity isn't so much Kindred Elders going senile, but Elders retaining the memory of their previous incarnations before an Archmage reality edits. That way it seems like they remember things that didn't happen, but really they're remembering things that no longer happened. Fun food for thought. ^_^

[Demigod Beast]

Before counting Elder Vampires out remember this: Nothing in Imperial Mysteries says Archmasters can't be blood bound.

Also fun side note: A personal favorite fan theory if mine is that the Fog of Eternity isn't so much Kindred Elders going senile, but Elders retaining the memory of their previous incarnations before an Archmage reality edits. That way it seems like they remember things that didn't happen, but really they're remembering things that no longer happened. Fun food for thought. ^_^

This...is awesome.

[Ever Professional]

Before counting Elder Vampires out remember this: Nothing in Imperial Mysteries says Archmasters can't be blood bound.

Also fun side note: A personal favorite fan theory if mine is that the Fog of Eternity isn't so much Kindred Elders going senile, but Elders retaining the memory of their previous incarnations before an Archmage reality edits. That way it seems like they remember things that didn't happen, but really they're remembering things that no longer happened. Fun food for thought. ^_^

Starting mages can clear the blood bond though. So, an Archmage, while fully capable of being under the bond, would not be under the bond soon after the bond occurred unless they chose to be.

[Malus]

Starting mages can clear the blood bond though. So, an Archmage, while fully capable of being under the bond, would not be under the bond soon after the bond occurred unless they chose to be.

Imagine if it was part of a Quintessence.

[Ever Professional]

Imagine if it was part of a Quintessence.

I'm not sure how Quintessence applies to this situation. A mage can restore their pattern with three mana (which lets them clear any mental condition).

And beyond that, vampires count as sleepwalkers when it comes to Supernal Magic.

[Ashenrogue]

I'm not sure how Quintessence applies to this situation. A mage can restore their pattern with three mana (which lets them clear any mental condition).

And beyond that, vampires count as sleepwalkers when it comes to Supernal Magic.

I think Malus is pointing out that chances are, if a vampire managed to blood bond an Archmage, it was honestly probably part of the archmages plan to be blood bond from the start in order to use that as Quintessence for an Imperial Spell of some sort. That and that that would make a pretty awesome excuse for one to let it ride for a bit.

[Epimetheus]

That wouldn't work as per 2e where they're basically immune to everything lower than another 6+ entity. It would also be over the minute they left to the golden road and basically get rid of their body if they didn't already clear it.