Spellcasting tips and tricks.

[Inquisitor]

So. I do consider myself somewhat proficient in Mage 2e's spellcasting system. But, as with everything, there's room for improvement. (Mostly beacause I feel completely left in the dust when other people in my party combo off to give everyone 8 again and +20 to all rolls for 24 hours and I just sit there and stare at them wondering how the hell are they even doing all that)
Which is why I have turned to you, dear forumgoers, to gain insight into the ways you do your magic, to hopefully help at least somewhat increase my efficiency with things, and quite possibly help other people who might also want to, well, improve themselves in that regard.

[projectmoon]

Most of those kind of effects are already in the pre-published spells. What kind of effects are you doing now vs what you want to be doing?

General recommendations include:

• Creating a demense (or getting a stranglehold grip on a permanent Verge). When you don't need to worry about Paradox, you can buff yourself a lot more.
• Creating a soul stone. This gives you another Dedicated Magical Tool, for -4 to Paradox, although you do sacrifice Yantra dice bonuses then.
• Get a Sanctum to go over spell control limits. This allows you to buff yourself more.
• Maximize Yantras bonuses. This means taking the Cabal Theme/Shadow Name merits, making use of Order Rote Skills with Mudras, getting a Legacy, and seeking out a collection of strange materials. The higher the Yantra bonus, the more room you have for increasing spell factors.
• Getting a Sleepwalker Retainer (or use Mind 5 for the same thing) to help with ritual casting. This grants you more dice, which means more room for spell factors.

[Mrmdubois]

It helps to know how spell factors work and to be able to do the relevant math, how many dice can be added to the spell roll, and how many can be subtracted to boost spell factors without reducing your chances of success below an acceptable thresh hold. I don't think it's actually possible to gain +20 to all rolls for 24 hours, so I hope that wasn't an actual example of what your friends are doing.

Also, it's not always about boosting spell factors. Personally, I get a lot of mileage out of very brief spells that induce momentary situational advantage whose side effects are Lasting, Knowing spells or nudging stuff around with Compelling, etc.

[totalgit]

Fate boons could give +potency dice for a number of rolls equal to potency. So you would need 20 potency to get +20 for 20 rolls, the duration could be a day but that only affects how long the spells lasts it ends either when 20 rolls are done or the duration ends. 20 potency is min -18 dice on casting (since exceptional luck is fate 2)

If its a example of what your friends are doing then perhaps they need to reread the book and brush up on whats possible not you.

It might help if we knew more about what Arcana you have? This might help https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php...e-Awakening-2e with what you should be capable off.

[Satchel]

Fate boons could give +potency dice for a number of rolls equal to potency. So you would need 20 potency to get +20 for 20 rolls, the duration could be a day but that only affects how long the spells lasts it ends either when 20 rolls are done or the duration ends. 20 potency is min -18 dice on casting (since exceptional luck is fate 2)

This conversation's been had multiple times: the +Potency boon effect is not unambiguously applicable to spellcasting rolls and the only boon effect that is unambiguously applicable to spellcasting rolls is the one that gives them a dice trick. The only part of Fate that explicitly lets you add straight dice to a spellcasting roll is in Fools Rush In (a Duration-primary spell with a very direct limitation) as a +3 Reach effect.

[totalgit]

This conversation's been had multiple times: the +Potency boon effect is not unambiguously applicable to spellcasting rolls and the only boon effect that is unambiguously applicable to spellcasting rolls is the one that gives them a dice trick. The only part of Fate that explicitly lets you add straight dice to a spellcasting roll is in Fools Rush In (a Duration-primary spell with a very direct limitation) as a +3 Reach effect.

A +2 reach on exceptional luck can give it to spell casting.

[Satchel]

A +2 reach on exceptional luck can give it to spell casting.

A technical reading of Exceptional Luck's ability to grant a boon to rolls does not override the specific placement of the statement of "you can add two Reach to let this work on spellcasting rolls" in one subheading of the section on how boons work. Again, there is a conflict of readings here where the one you're advocating negates the point of there being an entire system built around getting bonuses for having descriptive support for your intended effect. What you are describing is not unambiguous applicability.

[totalgit]

A technical reading of Exceptional Luck's ability to grant a boon to rolls does not override the specific placement of the statement of "you can add two Reach to let this work on spellcasting rolls" in one subheading of the section on how boons work. Again, there is a conflict of readings here where the one you're advocating negates the point of there being an entire system built around getting bonuses for having descriptive support for your intended effect. What you are describing is not unambiguous applicability.

???? I dont understand, Exception Luck can give bonus dice to spellcasting rolls, its RAW. Live with it. There is no conflict of reading, the only conflict is you not accepting you are wrong again.

[Satchel]

???? I dont understand, Exception Luck can give bonus dice to spellcasting rolls, its RAW.

Let's set aside that "It's the RAW" has never been a persuasive argument for unintuitive readings of the mechanics' intended parsing for a moment.

RAW is that Exceptional Luck has a +2 Reach effect labeled "The boon or hex can affect spellcasting rolls" and that, in the pair of three-item lists describing what boons and hexes can do at the front of the Arcanum writeup, one of each of those specifies that you can apply its effect to spellcasting rolls and other powers at the cost of +2 Reach. One of these effects is identical in provided mechanics to a Prime spell that makes Yantras make your spells more likely to succeed exceptionally on a hit and the other lets you apply a global penalty to any of the subject's actions.

Of the remaining four items, one is a negative effect whose options include no substantial instances of the one class of normal penalty mentioned as affecting magic "maybe, if you wish," and another calls out Skill rolls as the most regular use of its bonus. The latter is also more narrowly applicable than its penalizing counterpart even before getting into the question of whether it can be used on spells.

One of the last two items on the list, meanwhile, includes several things that outright break the way the spellcasting mechanics are supposed to work if they're valid uses — the entire point of having more ambitious spellcasting require larger penalties is that you then need to use more potent/numerous Yantras, teamwork, extra ritual intervals, and other specific bonuses to offset them or take your chances with a smaller pool, which doesn't work if you can just Steadfast your way to success or Inspire yourself into having an omni-Praxis.

Nothing about the way the game presents the world suggests that Exceptional Luck is vital spellcasting preparation in the way that offsetting entire chunks of the factor tables and/or giving you a blank check for any effect you have the time and Arcana for would indicate it is.

[Michael]

???? I dont understand,

Then re-read the section. It's not that hard to see the ambiguity Satchel is talking about.

[Poseur]

Though, nothing stops you from making a spell with creative thaumaturgy that can give likethe Steadfast Condition or such to work with spell-casting rolls, though, its probably a 3 dots spell. Probably costs mana though, probably calls on that supernal perfection.

[Mrmdubois]

Though, nothing stops you from making a spell with creative thaumaturgy that can give likethe Steadfast Condition or such to work with spell-casting rolls, though, its probably a 3 dots spell. Probably costs mana though, probably calls on that supernal perfection.

Satchel already mentioned that those are probably not supposed to be applicable to spells because they break the way spellcasting is meant to be implemented. That'd be right at the beginning of the 4th paragraph in their last post.

[Unahim]

???? I dont understand, Exception Luck can give bonus dice to spellcasting rolls, its RAW. Live with it. There is no conflict of reading, the only conflict is you not accepting you are wrong again.

It's pretty ambiguous, but the intent seems to be that the +2 Reach lets you add 8 or 9 again to spellcasting, only.

And this makes sense. Else you simply cast Exceptional Luck, then use the dice bonus to cast it again at higher potency, and keep repeating that. It'll plateau at a certain point, since you get only +1 to the next roll for every -2 you take, but it's quite clear that getting +12ish on the next spellcasting test is doable. This comletely breaks the game, making Exceptional Luck basically required for every Mage in order not to get laughed out of their Cabal. It's clearly not intended.

[Poseur]

Satchel already mentioned that those are probably not supposed to be applicable to spells because they break the way spellcasting is meant to be implemented. That'd be right at the beginning of the 4th paragraph in their last post.

And i wasn't talking about the Boon paragaphs either. I said you probably could make it work like totalgit thought it worked, with some creative thaumaturgy and a higher spelldot.
I'm well awere of the things Satchel put in good words and how the Boons work and don't. As well as i don't either see the point to allowing that, and one could argue it's against the intent of the system to allow "spell-casting Steadfast" etc, i surely do, but it's still possible to do with the system.

[totalgit]

Then re-read the section. It's not that hard to see the ambiguity Satchel is talking about.

Boons have 3 options:
* Grant 9 or 8 again + affect spell casting
* Grant bonus dice
* Grant a number of conditions

Exceptional luck says the boon can be applied to spell casting, so which ever boon you choose you can apply to spellcasting, whats ambiguous about it? Unless your saying the bonus dice or granting yourself conditions doesnt count as a viable boon? Where would you get that idea from?