Arcana of Supernal Beings

[maryshelly]

Regarding Supernal beings, it says that they can roll Power + Finess as their spell pool and get unlimited reach. Wouldn't this make the their powers far greater than mages, especially at Rank 3 and above, plus given the fact that they can increase their Power + Finess with essence? In theory can they just counterspell every spell that mages try to cast while casting devastating spells in return? In addition, am I wrong in assuming that Supernal beings get Arcana Attainments such as Mage Armour if they possess the appropriate Arcana?

[Mrmdubois]

Yup, they’re badass. In theory, sure, in practice they can whiff.

Sure, they get arcana attainments.

[Tessie]

Technically speaking Counterspell is a Clash of Wills, meaning they'd roll Rank + Arcanum, which is markedly worse.

[Neos01]

Technically speaking Counterspell is a Clash of Wills, meaning they'd roll Rank + Arcanum, which is markedly worse.

For balancing reason i would agree with you, but every time i had seen a clash of will with an entity with simplyfied attributes (the haunted grimoire spell for example), it was stated that the entity use power+finesse.
In fact i would use rank+power to attack but the books says power+finesse, for high ranks an huge pool

[Tessie]

For balancing reason i would agree with you, but every time i had seen a clash of will with an entity with simplyfied attributes (the haunted grimoire spell for example), it was stated that the entity use power+finesse.
In fact i would use rank+power to attack but the books says power+finesse, for high ranks an huge pool

That's because every single instance of CoW with an ephemeral entity in Mage has non-standard dice pool. The only time ephemeral entities have a stated generic CoW dice pool (in Werewolf 2e) it's Rank (+Influence, if an Influence is used). Whoever decided on the CoW dice pools in Mage probably thought the standard dice pool is shit, especially since none of the examples gain any duration bonuses.

[Scarlet Witch]

Wait, I thought Supernal denizens DONT get Attainments, it was a discussion I was part of months ago! Anyone remember? was that overrulled? I think it had something to do with denizens summoning themselves or not...

Another weird thing about Signs of Sorcery is that the forward copy details Supernals almost as if it was 1e?

Yeah I remember werewolf saying rank + influence too. which one do some of you think works best? rank + or attribute + for supernals? Or is one better for one game than the other, like giving higher dice pools vs Mages cuz hubris?

[Mrmdubois]

Wait, I thought Supernal denizens DONT get Attainments, it was a discussion I was part of months ago! Anyone remember? was that overrulled? I think it had something to do with denizens summoning themselves or not...

Another weird thing about Signs of Sorcery is that the forward copy details Supernals almost as if it was 1e?

Yeah I remember werewolf saying rank + influence too. which one do some of you think works best? rank + or attribute + for supernals? Or is one better for one game than the other, like giving higher dice pools vs Mages cuz hubris?

Doesn't make a lot of sense for Supernal entities to summon more of themselves, but it does make sense they'd be able to utilize Sympathy and the like.

[Neos01]

Wait, I thought Supernal denizens DONT get Attainments, it was a discussion I was part of months ago! Anyone remember? was that overrulled? I think it had something to do with denizens summoning themselves or not...

Another weird thing about Signs of Sorcery is that the forward copy details Supernals almost as if it was 1e?

Yeah I remember werewolf saying rank + influence too. which one do some of you think works best? rank + or attribute + for supernals? Or is one better for one game than the other, like giving higher dice pools vs Mages cuz hubris?

Looking at the other splats pools for CoW i would use Power+Rank for all ephemeral clashes, and even for other rolls

[EW-Matias]

I think the instances that call out for special CoW dice pools do so because otherwise rolling just Rank would be insufficient. But rolling Rank+Arcanum for CoW from spells or counter spells clashing seems pretty in line with a Mage's pool.