**** Mordred-The Aeon of Fate Always Sucks, Discuss

[Konradleijon]

Oh so the Aeon went from Sutek, then though stuff the Moirae, then though Merlin’s Accession Mordred. Those that mean someone could replace him as the next Aeon of Fate?

[LostLight]

I must say that I find it really suspicious that Medraut/Mordred's nature seems to align the best with his parallel Exrach than the rest of the Aeons (well, maybe other than the Old Man and the Gate, but IIRC the Old Man don't exactly love his job, and Medraut does). I mean, Fate as turning everything you do into meaningless and changes you can't avoid and will not change anything is more or less what the Ruin does- and the Ruin is an asshole by Her own right.

[LostLight]

Oh so the Aeon went from Sutek, then though stuff the Moirae, then though Merlin’s Accession Mordred. Those that mean someone could replace him as the next Aeon of Fate?

That is true for all Aeons. Azazel was once Mastema, for example.

[Teatime]

My brain is a tangle of references, so I don't know how canon my interpretation is, but here it goes: I always saw the switch from Moirae to Medraut as subtly empowering for humanity. Moirae represent divine forces mortals have no say in, but Medraut represents ruin through human folly. This means that after Myrddin's Ascension, ordinary people have more of a say about their fate than they ever did before. Admittedly, they have Medraut cheerleading for their self-destruction, so it's not as if they need to be grateful.

[Guest]

Dave Brookshaw wow 😲. I haven’t read that much Mage stuff, so I didn’t know all that. Thanks.

I know who Nimue was. What’s an Ananke?

[KaiserAfini]

My brain is a tangle of references, so I don't know how canon my interpretation is, but here it goes: I always saw the switch from Moirae to Medraut as subtly empowering for humanity. Moirae represent divine forces mortals have no say in, but Medraut represents ruin through human folly. This means that after Myrddin's Ascension, ordinary people have more of a say about their fate than they ever did before. Admittedly, they have Medraut cheerleading for their self-destruction, so it's not as if they need to be grateful.

So Medraut is at the result of Myrddin writing the Lion (giving something for humans to oppose) and the Stag (giving humans a much better fighting chance than with previous Aeons) into the Arcana ?

[Dave Brookshaw]

Dave Brookshaw wow 😲. I haven’t read that much Mage stuff, so I didn’t know all that. Thanks.

I know who Nimue was. What’s an Ananke?

A 7-dot Time spell.

An Ananke is like an artificial Qashmallim, if you know what they are. They're living spells, created by archmasters to enforce a particular future. When cast, the spell scans forward through time looking for anything that would prevent its creator's intended outcome happening, time-travels to that point, fixes it, and continues for ever.

They usually look like feminine figures, and work by persuasion if possible - and impossible-to-counter Destiny-stick if not.

For example, an Ananke called "The Grey Woman" appears whenever anyone threatens the seals holding a Bound Supernal God under Minsk, to warn them that it's a really bad idea, and warp their futures into going away (or dying) if they persist. At some point, some archmaster of Time decided that he or she really didn't want that thing getting released. I'd say at some point in the past, but we're talking about Imperial magic - Ananke might have been cast in the future to go back and alter history from their owners' point of view.

Anyway. Nimue is a woman-shaped thing, like a Supernal Being without many of the drawbacks but not as free to improvise, who destroys Camelot. That's what she does, and she doesn't discriminate. Give yourself the Shadow Name of Arthur and try to unite the Consilia of Britain, and she'll ensure your fate has a bad end.

[KaiserAfini]

A 7-dot Time spell.

An Ananke is like an artificial Qashmallim, if you know what they are. They're living spells, created by archmasters to enforce a particular future. When cast, the spell scans forward through time looking for anything that would prevent its creator's intended outcome happening, time-travels to that point, fixes it, and continues for ever.

They usually look like feminine figures, and work by persuasion if possible - and impossible-to-counter Destiny-stick if not.

For example, an Ananke called "The Grey Woman" appears whenever anyone threatens the seals holding a Bound Supernal God under Minsk, to warn them that it's a really bad idea, and warp their futures into going away (or dying) if they persist. At some point, some archmaster of Time decided that he or she really didn't want that thing getting released. I'd say at some point in the past, but we're talking about Imperial magic - Ananke might have been cast in the future to go back and alter history from their owners' point of view.

Anyway. Nimue is a woman-shaped thing, like a Supernal Being without many of the drawbacks but not as free to improvise, who destroys Camelot. That's what she does, and she doesn't discriminate. Give yourself the Shadow Name of Arthur and try to unite the Consilia of Britain, and she'll ensure your fate has a bad end.

That makes me wonder, did Nimue sabotage Pendragon after the end of Soul Cage ? Why did Merlin help if his Imperium Omen makes him opposed to Camelot existing ?

Medraut might be pure evil, but even his machinations can have unintended positive effects, as Seph demonstrated.

[Exthalion]

The causal order may be important here.

Mummy Fate and Mage Fate are specifically called out as different, and Mummy Fate generally takes precedence. I have no idea how acts of Imperium would interact with it.

That being the case, it may Fate is more complex than Mordred might make it appear. Ignoring Changling (which I know little about), it would produce at least 3 distinct variants:

Supernal Fate: Mordred is apparently the manifestation of this
Astral Fate: What mortals think about (meta) Fate
Mummy Fate: Only seen to really interact with mummies and Seba but presumably doing other things

Cosmologically, Mummy Fate might be the Fallen manifestation of Supernal Fate, though it seems less malevolent than Mordred. Regardless, all three of these forces could theoretically act in tension with each other.

[Arcanist]

Why did Merlin help if his Imperium Omen makes him opposed to Camelot existing ?

Camelot's Fall was the final Omen that allowed Merlin to Ascend. He helped build Camelot for the express purpose of toppling it. In the later romances where the fall of Camelot is due to Arthur's Original Sin early in his rule, it isn't because Morgan seduced him under a glamour that Camelot fell, but because Arthur pulled a King Herod (on the advice of Merlin) to prevent the terrible future that was foreseen should his bastard son reach adulthood. In that particular tale, Merlin is ostensibly trying to help but makes the situation worse. In Mage, Merlin was setting up the dominoes to knock them down later. Merlin hit the Ascension gong, hard, with the Ruin and Prophet's own decks of cards and Iron Seals.

[nofather]

Supernal Fate: Mordred is apparently the manifestation of this
Astral Fate: What mortals think about (meta) Fate

Just wanted to chime in about this. They seem more like a mix of Supernal and Astral Fate. I'm not sure if they get described much out of these two books, but these are the big ones I know of that talk about them, Imperial Mysteries and Signs of Sorcery.

From Imperial Mysteries, 'Part Supernal God, part conceptual entity, the Aeons represent magic in the Fallen World, ambassadors from the Supernal to the Phenomenal.' And explains that this has impacted them, as 'Unlike the Supernal gods, the Aeons are formed by belief. Like any other Astral beings, they change over time to reflect the place of their concept in the world.' While Signs of Sorcery is more clear, 'The Aeons and their homes assume any form they please, though for Western Awakened they usually abide by the descriptions below (including Medraut). They always carry a shadow of corruption born of their place outside the Supernal, close to the Abyss.'

[Guest]

Dave Brookshaw thanks. I do know what a qashmallim is.

[Konradleijon]

A 7-dot Time spell.

An Ananke is like an artificial Qashmallim, if you know what they are. They're living spells, created by archmasters to enforce a particular future. When cast, the spell scans forward through time looking for anything that would prevent its creator's intended outcome happening, time-travels to that point, fixes it, and continues for ever.

They usually look like feminine figures, and work by persuasion if possible - and impossible-to-counter Destiny-stick if not.

For example, an Ananke called "The Grey Woman" appears whenever anyone threatens the seals holding a Bound Supernal God under Minsk, to warn them that it's a really bad idea, and warp their futures into going away (or dying) if they persist. At some point, some archmaster of Time decided that he or she really didn't want that thing getting released. I'd say at some point in the past, but we're talking about Imperial magic - Ananke might have been cast in the future to go back and alter history from their owners' point of view.

Anyway. Nimue is a woman-shaped thing, like a Supernal Being without many of the drawbacks but not as free to improvise, who destroys Camelot. That's what she does, and she doesn't discriminate. Give yourself the Shadow Name of Arthur and try to unite the Consilia of Britain, and she'll ensure your fate has a bad end.

Wait qashmallims are living spells?

[Satchel]

Wait qashmallims are living spells?

Ananke are living spells, specifically of a sort that act like qashmallim do.

[branford]

I though Ananke were Imperial Magic of Fate, not time.