2e Legacy Brainstorming

[TempleBuilder]

So I have some ideas for legacies, but I have never made any before. I figured I could post the rough draft (or outline) here and if anyone was interested they could post comments and criticisms. Over time I could refine them into something usable, and edit the link into this post for easy access. All commentary and criticism is welcome.

I would like to start off with a legacy that merges the physical form and the dream form. Hopefully it becomes something that somebody uses in the future.

Actors of the Dream/ The Self Made
Singers in Silence
Zéteó Theriaca (In Progress)
Tamers of Roots

[TempleBuilder]

Actors of the Dream/ The Self Made

A legacy that comes from parallel development, seeking to make the self physical for various ends.

Duty requires Self-Sacrifice
Individuality above False Unity
The Soul is not the Self

Once there was a Lady of Bright Mantle, who pursued monsters. Her brilliant gown cut through the murky forest when the monsters dwelt, and the monsters saw this, and fearing for themselves selves, fled. And the Lady could find no track or trail to follow, for the monsters were quick and clever of mind and foot. When she discovered this, melancholy struck her, for she had journeyed far. She quickly found a road that lead out of the forest, when she saw a Wagon. The wagon had no animal attached, but the wagon was covered in Masques. And on the wagon was a monster, a monster without a face. And the monster turned to her, and said, "why do you cry, Fair Lady?". Surprised at the monsters words, she stopped and said, " I followed the monsters who hurt my village to this forest of murk and crag, so I may stop them from hurting others. But the monsters are canny and spot me long before I find them, thus do I lose them.". The monster nodded and said, "I am hungry, and I wish to feed. I only desire objects of beauty to eat, and that dress of yours will do nicely. I have no more need of this Wagon of Masques, and offer it in exchange". The lady hesitated, for she dearly loved her Bright Mantle, for it reminded her of her village. But she knew that she would never catch the monsters unawares with it, and with tears in her eyes, took on the Masques of the Wagon. And for the loss of mantle, the monsters mistook her for one of their own, and let her near enough for her to slay them.

Every Initiate hears this story, as every mentor wishes their pupil to understand what they will lose. The story is probably true, in metaphor at least. All thespians trace their linage back to the Lady of Bright Mantle, and the monster who traded her the legacy. The thespians understand that the self sometimes gets in the way of duty. Only by being willing to shed the self, does one truly become able to do what they must. The Masques help facilitate this to a degree, but the thespians take it one step further and physically merge with their concept of self. When a thespian puts on Masque, their form changes to truly reflect the new self. In time, the Masques change the thespian and in doing so makes them lose who they once were. Many Guardians who know of this respect the thespians as martyrs, putting themselves in cover so deep they forget who they are. The Faceless faction in particular believes that the legacy upholds all of their ideals. The legacy is a secret, and the Guardians zealously guard it. There are no known Daimonomikons and the creation of soul stones are forbidden. Outside of the Guardians, many know of a legacy of shapeshifters,(it's hard to conceal the fact that your cabal mate changes form every so often from other mages), but the particulars are unknown.

One fateful day on January 21 2002, an argument broke out on a Free Council internet forum, on the true nature of the exarchs. In the middle of the troll posts and rampant speculation, some crazy person used a Forces/ Prime /Space spell to force the server post a Daimonomikon with no sympathetic connections to it's creator. Credited only to someone named They of Purple Hair, it outlines a legacy devoted in symbolism against the Unity, with a brief bit about how information wants to be free, and how anyone should be able to use it for free. Every Free Council lorehouse on that thread promptly added it to their collection, and the rest is history. The Legacy runs strong in Free Council and Solitaires, and they are about as un-unified as one can get. As per the wishes of the legacies creator, the legacy is completely free, and is so widely spread that it can be assumed EVERY lorehouse has a copy of the Daimonomikon. The legacy is fairly popular, and is rather well known. There in lies the problem, since anyone can join, and all members have equal status to each other. Anyone wishing to be a leader over the others has no method to obtain it. Even members with the greater attainments might respected for their dedication, but that's not enough to seriously sway anyone's opinion any more than any elder mage. The only thing that the legacy as a whole can agree on is that they should fight the seers, especially the hegemony. HOW they might do that is almost never agreed by anyone. Nobody know who the creator is or how they are doing. Most members don't care as the creator had to have been a powerful mage, and thus can take care of themselves. The Guardians of the Veil have taken special interest in the legacy, as it's attainments mirror that of the Actors of the Dream. There is something of a hunt among the Guardians, for They of the Purple Hair, but who ever they are, they remain at large.



Origins

Parentage: Mastigos, Thyrsus, Guardians, Free Council, Nameless
Background: Guardians: Method actors, Con Artists and other Liars. Free Council: Lucid Dreamers, Anarchists, Transhumans, People with Dysphoria
Appearances: Always comfortable into their skin, Guardians trend towards the styles of environments they want to infiltrate. Free Councilor tend to use their appearance as techne. Older members tend to have distinct appearances, like a hair color that appears dyed but is naturally that color, and if having transhuman leanings, a distinctly inhuman appearance.
Nicknames: Guardians: Thespians , Free Council: , Narcissists (negative)
Doctrine

Prerequisites: Mind 2, Life 2, Guardians: Masque 1, Free Council: Empathy 1, Occult, Science, or Expression 1
Initiation: Guardians: The initiate is give a brightly colored robe decorated with symbols of their self. They are brought to a empty room and left to fast for 2 days. They are given more metaphorical stories to process until the mentor, dressed and decorated as a monster and carrying symbolic masks arrives. The Student ritually gives the mentor the robe symbolizing themselves, and watches as the mentor destroys it, often though spells. The student then picks up and wears the mask symbolizing symbolizing their Masque.
Free Council: The initiate meditates to their Oneiros, and makes their way to their concept of themselves. Once there they must convince the Geotia of their ideal self and of their current self to merge with them. Afterward, they must leave the Oneiros and look into a mirror and swear to always be themselves.
Organization: Guardians are organized into mentor student relations, and many students tend to take up their mentors their positions in the Guardians when their mentor no longer can. Free Council tends to forgo formal organization in favor of a web of informal contacts.
Theory: The dream form is the truest self. The Legacy physically becomes the dream self, for insight, for self expression. They change themselves in mind, and therefore in body. Some give up their selves so they can be anyone, others exalt themselves so they can be their best self.

Magic
Ruling Arcanum: Mind
Yantras: Guardians: Applying a Physical Disguise(+1); Clothing Symbolizing current Masque (+2); Casting on someone who trusts your disguise (+2); Destroying something symbolic of your old life(+1, +2 if it is irreplaceable)
Free Council: Check appearance in the mirror (+1); Wear Clothing Mirroring the Dream Form (+1); Destroy a Symbol of the Unity (+1, +2 if it causes a significant setback to a associated organization)
Oblations: Guardians: Changing the Masque; Preform a act on a stage ; Spend a significant amount of time Method Acting for a role; Gaining Family Ties condition
Free Council: Verbally accepting a stranger for who they are, Draw Comment on their Individuality, Spend a significant amount of time inside the Oneiros, Spend a significant amount of time reflecting on the self.

Attainments

First: See The Masques(Know the Self)

Prerequisites: Initiation.
To start with, one must truly understand their self and others. This Attainment combines the "Know Nature" and "Analyze Life" spells, with Reach assigned to instant casting. Along with the component spell's base effects, this Attainment also reveals what the subject's dream form looks like, their dream form Attribute dot totals, and their Amnion rating.
When used against Beasts and similar creatures, it reveals the full form of their Horror. Goetia have their nature, influences and rank reveled.

Second: Defense of the Masques(Armor of the self)

Prerequisites: Life 2, Mind 2, skill or merit 3
This Attainment augments the mage's Mage Armor. By additionally spending a Willpower point when raising or having raised Mind or Life Armor, the mage may overlay her Amnion over it.

Third: Wear the Masques (Form of the Self)

Prerequisites: Life 3, Mind 3 two dots in a second Skill among the optional prerequisite Skills
Permanently gains the appearance of their dream form. The dream form takes into account their virtue, vice and conditions that could reasonably affect their self-image. As these things change, so too does their appearance. Changes are mostly illusory, spells and dna will still read as original. It will look and feel, like the real thing though. Can spend mana to lock their appearance into whatever it currently is or change to any dream form scanned by the first attainment. Uses instant and advanced duration.

Based off of Mutable Mask, with reach assigned to instant and advanced duration.

I’m not sure if merging the optional and main attainment is a good idea, but I think it’s necessary for this legacy. I like the idea of legacies that have always active attainments that can be annoying sometimes, with a mana spent to force the attainment to behave. The idea is that an member’s appearance will be slowly changing, sometimes very rapidly, mirroring their self-image. Most changes will be minor, like being a few inches taller when feeling self-confident, or having a slightly different build after some weird dreams. Serious conditions, like guilty, might manifest openly supernatural qualities, like constantly bloody hands. Changing a Masque will always radically change a member’s appearance. A Guardians “default” appearance probably includes multiple faces, that each resemble their masques.

Fourth: Be the Masques(Mantle the self)
Prerequisites: Life 4, Mind 4, Skill or Merit 4.
Truly merge dream form and physical, turning stats into power, finesse, and resistance. The changes become completely physical, meaning spells and dna will read differently than original form. Calculate using the highest from physical, social, or mental. Can spend a extra mana when using 3rd attainment to rearrange stats, requiring a minimum of 1 and a max of the normal maximum for a stat.

Based off of Many Faces weaved with the dream form, with reach assigned to instant and advanced duration.



Fifth: Final Masques(Self in Others)
Prerequisites: Life 5, Mind 5 two dots in a third Skill among the optional prerequisite Skills
The mage can truly become other dream forms. Anyone who has been scanned by the first attainment can be transformed into using the third and fourth attainment and a willpower. This transformation copies the dream form stats of the creature. The scanned person or creatures memories overlay the mages own. Virtue and vice are replaced with the targets, in cases were that is relevant. The scanned targets asperations are added alongside the mages own. Most spells to identify identify turn up positive, the mage is in fact the scanned target. The mage can chose whether to be the physical version or the dream self version of the target. This attainment works on horrors and Goetia. Gain two times mind dots of influences or atavisms or merits that the target has. This attainment does nothing on rank 6 and above Goetia and horror with a inheritance. Gain any bans or banes of the target.

A problem with being someone else so thoroughly is that it's hard to stop being them. To end the effect the mage must spend a willpower. That's not all, Breaking character comes with consequences. If the mage tries to do something the target absolutely would not do, a mental clash happens, purely in the mind. The mage mage rolls their empathy + resistance + gnosis minus the targets resistance plus supernatural tolerance or rank plus highest influence. a success allows the mage to preform the contested action. An exceptional success grants the inspired condition. A failure prevents the contested action, and a dramatic failure has the mage replace one of the mages asperations with one of the targets.

Based off Psychic Reprograming and Shapechanging with reach to advanced duration and Instant



Edited for format. Hopefully this is better? also added all of my vague ideas for lore surrounding the legacy, hope that helps with clarification. I legitimately had forgotten about [legion], I don't intend for this legacy to be reapers or liches by default.

Edit 2: added 21c Hermit’s ideas and refinements of the 1st and second attainments, I’m pretty happy with then right now. Reading Beast now for ideas on final attainments

Edit 3: I'm finally finishing this. I will be editing this for the rest of the day. Wish me luck!

[KaiserAfini]

I suggest approaching this iteratively, first step is to add some nice formatting. This will not only make it easier to see what we are missing, but also looks well aesthetically. I suggest using one from the Legacy conversion thread, you can simply substitute your own one into it:

THE PEOPLE OF THE HOUR

He never was the type to stay put, always riding off to somewhere with that damn motorcycle of his. Once he came back with that ridiculous fashion, but apparently the punks on the street thought that's exactly what they wanted. He's a good-for-nothing troublemaker for sure, but you can't help but wonder what he'll introduce the next time he comes rolling in town.

Reach Out to the Moment

Grow up, get a job, get married, have kids, retire, and die. Such was the certainty of life in the 1950s, but the 60s saw people jump off that well-paved road and plunge into the thorns, and in the 70s they were screaming iron words and carving out bloody trails in them. The People of the Hour were born in that same chaotic blur, founded by a young Enchanter tearing apart at the banality of daily life. Skirting at the edges of what her Awakened peers would tolerate, the Enchanter eventually summoned down Arcadia itself, struck a bargain, and went off to better the present.

The 80s and the 90s saw much of that chaos and fervor of the past decade or two die out, but the need to break away from the pattern and seize the moment still calls out to the hearts of many, and that need is what keeps the People of the Hour relevant to the Awakened of today. The Awakened know that their will can shape the world, and so the Spoilers continue to this day to reach out to tomorrow so that today becomes a wonder.

Origins

Parentage: Acanthus, Free Council, Nameless
Background: All Spoilers desired to not just survive but live in the moment, and make today better than yesterday. Aside from this commonality, two Spoilers in the same room could come from vastly different walks of life with no shared trait whatsoever. Most tend to come from the middle class, as they are often who feel disenfranchised by the present and can afford to do something about it.
Appearances: Flair and gusto define a typical Spoiler's wardrobes. Some might look like they came straight out of some vintage thrift shop, while another might walk around with the avant-garde stuff people expect only on a fashion runway. Either way, a Daredevil can be expected to generally not care about how expensive their choice is, but only that they like it.

Doctrine

Prerequisites: Time 2, Streetwise 2, two dots in one of the following Skills; Socialize, Drive, Persuasion, Athletics, Survival
Initiation: Spoilers are active in various charities, activist groups and social clubs, and a mage frequenting such organizations might come across a Daredevil willing to initiate them. The tutelage often consists of the mentor plunging his would-be pupil straight into his current project, stirring her up and seeing if she can seize what she sees in the future to change the present.
Organization: The teacher-student bond is the only organizational structure the People of the Hour practice, and even then the mentor is only there to see how her pupil applies her lessons. Sometimes the teacher lets his student loose right after initiation, to see how he grows without rules. Regardless, the Legacy's ideals allow even two Spoilers directly opposed in their vision to recognize each other as kindred spirits.
Theory: Time may be of the essence, but that is no reason to rush through life. The People of the Hour command the secrets of the future to better the present, pursuing tomorrow with a passion but never forgetting that they're doing it to make today a better moment.

Magic
Ruling Arcanum: Time
Yantras: A crowd being entertained by the mage (+1); Tarot reading (+2); latest fashion article (+2); taking a non-calculated risk (+1, +2 if done purely for the thrill of it)
Oblations: Repeatedly performing an act of random chance; sponsoring substance abuse recovery; performing derring-do while entertaining a crowd; helping someone who has lost something

Attainments

First: Fifty-Fifty

Prerequisites: Initiation
Too many people are paralyzed by the worry whether their action is the optimal one or not. The Spoiler is certainly not one of them, for she is confident that she can ask herself to know just that. This Attainment mimicks the "Momentary Flux" spell, cast on the Spoiler herself. Reach is assigned to instant use.
Because the People of the Hour focus on the present, this Attainment does not help the mage on anything that would constitute an extended action.

Optional: Fate 1
A Daredevil would say an action can only either succeed or fail, so he might as well just do it. He backs up such statements by replicating the "Quantum Flux" spell, cast on himself. Reach is assigned to instant use.

Second: Smooth Cruise

Prerequisites: Time 2, Streetwise 3
The Spoiler has a tomorrow to grasp and a today to improve, and the little obstructions in her life seem so insignificant compared to that. This Attainment emulates the "Green Light / Red Light" spell, cast positively on the Spoiler herself. Reach is assigned to instant use and Advanced Duration.

Optional: Fate 2
A daredevil he may be, but the mage need not always shoot in the dark. He can at the least find the general direction to shoot at by mimicking the "Serendipity" spell. Reach is assigned to instant use, and allowing the Daredevil to substitute a Skill of the same category for rolling to achieve his task.
This effect only works on objectives that the mage at least intends to finish the day he uses it. It also does not work on objectives lingering from yesterday and further.

Third: Avant-Garde

Prerequisites: Time 3, two dots in a second Skill among the optional prerequisite Skills
Lady Peacock, founder of the People of the Hour, directly summoned a Fae of Arcadia for counsel. While few of the Legacy can match her tremendous fortune, a fearless Spoiler can push at the boundaries of safety to reach out towards Arcadia and part its thorns with bare hands, revealing her own Vision of the future she sees and the present she wishes.
This Attainment augments Supernal summoning. The Spoiler needs to prepare a summoning circle, but does not need to do so in a Demesne or a Supernal Verge. Targeted Summoning cannot be used in conjunction; the summoned Vision is always an Anachronism with Fate as its secondary Arcanum.
Summoning the Vision is still an extended action, using Gnosis + Time as its dice pool. As an Attainment, the summoning is warded against Abyssal intrusion. The Spoiler still suffers aggravated damage in a dramatic failure, but does not invite the Abyss.
The Vision's Trial is that the Spoiler must have genuinely exhausted what she can or thinks she can do at the moment. If there is even one "last-ditch method" that the mage knows she can take but is reluctant to do so because of the risk, the Vision will simply not answer her. However, the mercurial whims of the Fae mean that it is difficult to pinpoint just exactly what they deem an impossibility or not. Suicidal risks and inviting the Abyss as an option are usually an exception, but not always.
The entity is still vulnerable to Fallen corrosion, taking Corpus damage from exposure to the Fallen World. However, the Vision always returns safely to Arcadia even if it perishes outside the summoning circle after its time runs out. Unless she personally caused it, the Spoiler does not suffer Wisdom degeneration from the Vision's death.
The Vision normally appears as a series of hallucinatory images of potential futures and possible presents around the Spoiler's vicinity. Should it take a more concrete form, it appears as an exact double of the Spoiler. In this form its Attributes equal the lowest of the Spoiler's own in their respective categories. All other traits follow the usual Rank-derived limits for Supernal entities.
The Virtue and Vice of the Vision mirror that of its summoner. The Vision will only act to reveal itself to the Spoiler, and she must use magic to command the Vision to act otherwise. Should anyone else attempt to hijack the Vision or otherwise control it, it responds with a Clash of Wills on which it scores automatic successes equal to its Rank.
Lastly, while the Vision does not force itself on the Fallen World, it rewards those who pursue the future it represents. The Spoiler can choose to take "Realize the Vision I have seen" as an Obsession. This ignores the usual Gnosis-derived limit for the number of Obsessions. Unlike normal Obsessions, this Obsession grants Mana each time it gives an Arcane Beat for partial progress, not just for its resolution.

Optional: Fate 3
The Daredevil lives up to his nickname, apparently fearless in diving into the uncertain and the unknown. He replicates the "Fools Rush In" spell, with Reach assigned to instant use and Advanced Duration.

Fourth: Catch as Catch can
Prerequisites: Time 4, Streetwise 4
The more infamous talents of a Spoiler allows her to simply do over her action, based on the principle that what she does now is more important than what she will do or has done. This Attainment emulates the "Shifting Sands" spell, with Reach assigned to instant use and going back a full scene.

Optional: Fate 4
The Daredevil doesn't just ride the vagaries of fortune; he surfs through it, jumping from one moment to another with a series of good luck that others interpret as him being "in the flow." By spending a point of Mana, he replicates the "Superlative Luck" spell, with Reach assigned to instant use and Advanced Duration.
This effect does not benefit rolls of extended actions.

Fifth: Stacking the Deck
Prerequisites: Time 5, two dots in a third Skill among the optional prerequisite Skills
The most wildest of Spoilers seemingly make the world gravitate around herself, the future apparently going out of its way to serve her agenda. With a point of Mana, this Attainment emulates the "Present as Past" spell. Reach is assigned to instant use and Advanced Scale. Should the Spoiler face a Clash of Wills triggered by the Time Arcanum, she scores automatic successes equal to her Time dots.

Optional: Fate 5
The Daredevil stacks the decks of fate in his favor, receiving ace cards when no one else does so that he may continue whatever antics he performs while living the moment. He replicates the "Miracle" spell as an instant action.

With that in mind, the next step is to flesh out their theme. How would you describe their philosophy in one sentence ? What feel are you going for ? Right now they sound to be somewhere between the Guardian's [Legion] Legacy and the Free Council's Cloud Infinite Legacy. The more we can distill their essence, the better we can synergize their Attainments with it.

[Satchel]

Nicknames: something to do with the self as a concept, like a derogatory name something narcissists
[…]Appearance: literally anything, generally unique.

Pertinent criticism of this concept from the recent past can be found here.

Assuming you didn't just pick the Parent Paths for their Arcana, I feel that leaning into study of the Begotten and/or the interface between the Temenos and the Anima Mundi (and the Shadow) would be the best bet for a theoretical basis, particularly if, as you mentioned in the Simple Questions thread, your aim is to riff on Bloodborne's Hunter's Dream.

[TempleBuilder]

Thank you, I will definitely do that. Should I edit the post to be in that format?

[KaiserAfini]

Yep, I wrote a few Legacies and found it very handy. Two of them can be found on my signature, I also wrote the Bannerets of Ameretat (which I feel might be helpful to your Bloodborne idea) and the Anima Meccanica. I always add design notes after the main writeup, hopefully they could be helpful in structuring the process for you. Additionally, I edited in some more info at the end of the original post that may be helpful to start the process.

[TempleBuilder]

Pertinent criticism of this concept from the recent past can be found here.

Assuming you didn't just pick the Parent Paths for their Arcana, I feel that leaning into study of the Begotten and/or the interface between the Temenos and the Anima Mundi (and the Shadow) would be the best bet for a theoretical basis, particularly if, as you mentioned in the Simple Questions thread, your aim is to riff on Bloodborne's Hunter's Dream.

I kinda wanted the legacy to be a middle ground between the Chrysalis and the Pure Sovereigns, where Chrysalis is what becoming what ever they think is perfect, and the Pure Sovereigns being the perfected humans. I guess this attempt ended up being a Guardian and Free Council version of Pure Sovereigns.

The criticisms on that thread are valid here, but I’m trying to make a standardized version of the legacy. I have always imagined legacies having different paths, kinda like a skill tree in video games. One transhuman engineer specializes in cybernetics, while another has attainments related to software. Any written legacy is the standard path of the legacy, not the only one. If anything else, I can always alter it to be more specific.

Well I totally did the parent paths due to arcana, I’m really not sure which path’s symbolism, if any really would work here.

I think this legacy is better served leaving the inspiration as inspiration. While I dearly love Bloodborne, the debate on physical existence in the astral convinced me that it should be a unique mystery, perhaps happening to somebody in the legacy, than as part of the main legacy.

Drawing from Beast is a excellent idea, especially Lairs, and the merging of a beast with their horror. A begotten may have even inspired the original founder of the legacy. I’m going to have to acquire the beast book.

[TempleBuilder]

Yep, I wrote a few Legacies and found it very handy. Two of them can be found on my signature, I also wrote the Bannerets of Ameretat (which I feel might be helpful to your Bloodborne idea) and the Anima Meccanica. I always add design notes after the main writeup, hopefully they could be helpful in structuring the process for you. Additionally, I edited in some more info at the end of the original post that may be helpful to start the process.

Work for tomorrow then, I’m tired now. I really enjoyed the Anima Meccanica (reverse possession is a inspired idea for magitech). I’m looking forward to reading Bannerets of Ameretat.

[Satchel]

Well I totally did the parent paths due to arcana, I’m really not sure which path’s symbolism, if any really would work here.
[…]
Drawing from Beast is a excellent idea, especially Lairs, and the merging of a beast with their horror. A begotten may have even inspired the original founder of the legacy. I’m going to have to acquire the beast book.

Get the Player's Guide, too, it's practically essential as a follow-up expansion, particularly for its provision of Beast's perspective of the rest of the Astral.

As the Paths most concerned with self-mastery and self-transcendance, the Mastigos and the Thyrsus can use the presence of a Beast with Family Ties as a Yantra, and the Dreamspeakers are an Astral-based Thyrsus Legacy for a reason; you could do worse for a Legacy looking to blur the line between the Astral and the material than to try and steal or replicate the Anima Mundi's "this feels more real than waking reality" quality in your Dream Form.

[TempleBuilder]

With that in mind, the next step is to flesh out their theme. How would you describe their philosophy in one sentence ? What feel are you going for ? Right now they sound to be somewhere between the Guardian's [Legion] Legacy and the Free Council's Cloud Infinite Legacy. The more we can distill their essence, the better we can synergize their Attainments with it.

Well I am making the legacy in reverse order it seems, I started this by asking myself what cool things could be done by a mind life legacy, and figured the lore would fall from there. I believe I have shot myself in the foot by doing that as I am unsure as where to go next for final attainments, and what to do for the rest of the information. I am afraid I don't see the resemblance to the free council cloud infinite, which if I recall piggy backs off other people's souls like a computer network? [Legion] on the other hand is extremely similar in concept. I don't know the lore behind them, but maybe this legacy is a attempt to purify them?

I edited the legacy a bit like you specified. Hope it looks better. Added a few things too.

edited: to make a observation. After looking at guardian factions on the wiki, I would think this legacy would be a default one for the faceless faction.

[TempleBuilder]

Get the Player's Guide, too, it's practically essential as a follow-up expansion, particularly for its provision of Beast's perspective of the rest of the Astral.

As the Paths most concerned with self-mastery and self-transcendance, the Mastigos and the Thyrsus can use the presence of a Beast with Family Ties as a Yantra, and the Dreamspeakers are an Astral-based Thyrsus Legacy for a reason; you could do worse for a Legacy looking to blur the line between the Astral and the material than to try and steal or replicate the Anima Mundi's "this feels more real than waking reality" quality in your Dream Form.

Isn’t that a property of the ecstatic wind? While stealing realities attempt to dissolve your independence from it would be cool, I’m not sure how I can make that work. I have something of a weird idea. Is it possible to steal or replicate the legend of a beast or hero? Do heroes get legends? Perhaps the final attainment can be the assuming of a story archetype? What would that even do? I really need to get beast.

[Satchel]

Isn’t that a property of the ecstatic wind?

The Ecstatic Wind is most readily explained as "you've entered the layer of the soul where everything is part of a larger web of relationships that is constantly eating itself." The "more real than material reality" part of the Anima Mundi is best explained by the fact that this layer is the soul of the entire world, which dwarfs humanity in scope — the Aeons dwell here, and the Wind is strongest in the region directly bordering the idea of the Abyss itself. Applying standard goetic summoning complications to a Dreamtime goetia means that you effectively delete something from the collective awareness of the world until it returns or reforms, whereas bringing a Dreamtime goetia into material reality notably doesn't have any special effect on Mind-Twilight that doesn't come directly from the entity's actions.

Is it possible to steal or replicate the legend of a beast or hero? Do heroes get legends? Perhaps the final attainment can be the assuming of a story archetype? What would that even do?

Heroes have the same type of Anchor Traits as Beasts do (Life and Legend instead of Virtue and Vice), and the ones that seek to kill Beasts gain powers from each kill but are more locked into their Legend.

The archetype is less assumed than inescapable, as far as Beasts and Heroes go. Cults of personality based on cultivated Legend are a common enough form of Beast society, and Heroes are effectively the product of weakened Integrity letting an archetype take too much hold of a character's drives (and drag other mortals along with them besides), but in practical terms, having a Legend amounts to having power and being famous/infamous/widely recognized. Translating that into Attainments may be tricky.

[TempleBuilder]

The Ecstatic Wind is most readily explained as "you've entered the layer of the soul where everything is part of a larger web of relationships that is constantly eating itself." The "more real than material reality" part of the Anima Mundi is best explained by the fact that this layer is the soul of the entire world, which dwarfs humanity in scope — the Aeons dwell here, and the Wind is strongest in the region directly bordering the idea of the Abyss itself. Applying standard goetic summoning complications to a Dreamtime goetia means that you effectively delete something from the collective awareness of the world until it returns or reforms, whereas bringing a Dreamtime goetia into material reality notably doesn't have any special effect on Mind-Twilight that doesn't come directly from the entity's actions.

Heroes have the same type of Anchor Traits as Beasts do (Life and Legend instead of Virtue and Vice), and the ones that seek to kill Beasts gain powers from each kill but are more locked into their Legend.

The archetype is less assumed than inescapable, as far as Beasts and Heroes go. Cults of personality based on cultivated Legend are a common enough form of Beast society, and Heroes are effectively the product of weakened Integrity letting an archetype take too much hold of a character's drives (and drag other mortals along with them besides), but in practical terms, having a Legend amounts to having power and being famous/infamous/widely recognized. Translating that into Attainments may be tricky.

You know, I’ve never really thought about summoning removing the concept from memory in the context of the anima mundi. Can somebody remove the idea of themselves from greater humanity? Would that make people forget or just not think of them until the duration expires? If I was doing a legacy devoted towards the anima mundi, I would have them draw power from the thoughts of stars and galaxies. Are their legacies devoted towards working for the Aeons? I definitely can see a legacy in obeying the will of Lilith, the closest being to a goddess of magic in the fallen world. I wonder how such a legacy would be viewed as most of the defined personalities of the Aeons are evil to carbon copy of their respective exarch.

[21C Hermit]

Of course my first post after a three-year or so absence from the forums would be helping somebody homebrew a Legacy.

Hmm... so, a Legacy based around "mantling" your own Dream Form, for either the abandoning the self or liberating it from the physicality of the body. Wait a sec, I'll edit some ideas in in this post after rereading the Spells and Legacies sections for 2E core...




EDIT: Ugh, I'm rusty. No heart for a "full" writeup. But...

Ruling Arcanum: Mind

First Attainment
This Attainment combines the "Know Nature" and "Analyze Life" spells, with Reach assigned to instant casting. Along with the component spell's base effects, this Attainment also reveals what the subject's dream form looks like, their dream form Attribute dot totals, and their Amnion rating.
When used against Beasts and similar creatures, it reveals the full form of their Horror.

Second Attainment
This Attainment augments the mage's Mage Armor. By additionally spending a Willpower point when raising or having raised Mind or Life Armor, the mage may overlay her Amnion over it.

Third Attainment
Uhh... okay, I'm shockingly out of ideas already (man I feel dated), but generally I feel the Third Attainment is where Legacy Attainments can afford to get weird. So yeah, turning your 'true form' into your dream form should start from here.

Maybe the Fourth Attainment allows you to freely augment your dream form...

...and the Fifth allows you to copy it wholesale from other mages, Goetia, and even Beastly Horrors. Not just illusory changes limited to the visuals, but actually copying it, similar to the "Shapechanging" spell.

[KaiserAfini]

Pocket Dimension with conjunctional Mind or Time can do it while within its bounds. Empty Presence from Death can do it too, with some caveats (but adding appropriate conjunctional Arcana may solve that). Placing yourself in a temporal paradox (not the Abyssal kind) removes any traces of you from history. There are multiple ways to go about it.

Regarding Legacy design, sometimes you start with an Arcanum and Order combination and then look for a meaningful theme to derive from it. There are also cases where you figure out the theme first and how you want to build upon it. Both paths converge at the same point: the first meaningful thing you need to figure out in Legacy design is the theme, which orients building the Attainments to function as a synergistic toolkit. Its a reference point you can always return to after completing a section, to make sure the flavor and flow are finely tuned.

The formatting looks pretty good so far. I think the first question that comes to mind is why would a mage want to be morphed into, for example, King Arthur all the time. It would be difficult to explain the armor and crown in their everyday life. The Attainments also need to account for Reaches and spell factors to obtain permanent duration. So I guess the first questions are: what do they want to do and why ? Regarding assuming a new form, how would they make a pitch to a potential recruit against the Bene Elohim, Katsinam Suukya or Orphans of Proteus ? In the topic of disguising themselves, how would they draw someone to them against the Princes of Many Masks or Subtle Ones ? Defining their specific niche is the first step to coalescing your idea.