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  • #76
    Order of the Iron Tower
    Mages whose will extends beyond their flesh.

    Nicknames: Acolytes, Far-Hands, Iron-Willed, Mysophobes (Derogatory)
    Organization: The Order of the Iron Tower are paragons of traditonal Diamond hierarchies - the learned elders of the Legacy hold near absolute social command over their juniors, and only by demonstrating a refined understanding of the Mysteries does one progress. Typically a Legacy Master is attended by their Adept apprentices, who in turn are attended by Disciples, and so on. While Acolytes are rarely lazy, most will shunt work they deem "beneath" them onto their subordinates. As a rule of thumb, few Adepts of the Iron Tower will personally attend to mundane tasks that they cannot achieve with Telekinesis, and a Master will shun any task that requires them to tread the profane earth. Few Masters of the Iron Tower deign to even maintain a Sleeper facade upon learning to scorn gravity's pull, although the more pragmatic will wear long robes or even hover imperceptibly above the ground. The rest operate through proxies when absolutely necessary, a pool from which new Acolytes are commonly drawn.

    Theory: Though Matter is a vital component of the Supernal, in the Fallen World it is a tyranny to be overcome.

    Background: Many Legacies will claim ancient pedigree, dating back to the earliest days of Post-Fall Neolithic Awakened society. If nothing else, the Tamer Legacies have a solid claim to that distinction. The Order of the Iron Tower, on the other hand, touts their supererioriry as deriving from a Supernal origin.

    The Order of the Iron Tower descend from a summoner of Supernal Entities, alledgedly a Legacy-less Archmaster of Forces named Wa who bartered with the denizens of Pandemonium. A Mastigos before the Golden Road, the Archmage had always had a self-acknowledged irrational grudge against the Matter Arcana. They were surprised however, to discover that this bias had adherents even in the Phenomenal Realm. These Imps, who called themselves "The Lords In Iron" or "The Lords of The Iron Tower" interchangeably, preached against the so-called "tyranny of Matter". They believed the Exarchs have perverted Matter in order to shackle Space, and that only in defying Matter's limitations could that tyranny be fought.

    While a more pragmatic Mage might have simply sought out a Matter-aligned Legacy to learn -or even point out that all of the Gross Arcana ultimately contribute to the physicality of the Fallen- even Archmages can be irrational. Wa aligned themself with the Imps, and under their tutelage formed a Legacy predicated on turning the intangible Forces of the Fallen World against Matter's alleged shackles. To spread the Legacy, they seeded the knowledge of how to summon The Lords In Iron in Mysterium Athenaeum and Silver Ladder storehouses, and scribed Daikonomikon for the Lords to carry forth as Supernal commandments when summoned. Though not all curious Mastigoi heeded the strange Imps, enough did that the Order of the Iron Tower took root within the Pentacle.

    Modern Acolytes preach a brand of staunch traditionalism in the interpretations of the Watchtowers, namely that Matter is bereft of meaning without human intervention. Many Acolytes refuse to truck with Matter, or self-initiate only deep enough to Shield themselves from that Arcana. They likewise revere Forces is an extension of will, a purifying Arcana into which they feed their weakness and refine their mind. Moros members, while not rare, are uncommon and often very uncomfortable around their peers.

    Parentage: Mastigos; Silver Ladder or Mysterium
    Ruling Arcanum: Forces
    Yantras: Concentration becomes a +3 Yantra; Casting a spell while having a Willpower pool over half full (+2); Suffering a Mental Condition appropriate to the cast spell, such as Paranoid for the spell Isolation (+2); Striking a "power pose" appropriate to the cast spell (+1) [Advice appreciated - I keep defaulting to 4e DnD-style Psion gear like orbs and floating gemstones]
    Oblations: Meditate in sensory deprivation; Studying the effects of a Matter Annulity; Communing with a Lord of the Iron Tower

    Prerequisites: Forces 2, Fluent High Speech
    Initiation: Commune with a Lord In Iron, pass it's trial, and be allowed to study their Daikonomikon. Non-Mastegoi will typically require assistance for the summoning. Though later Attainments will come from a senior Acolyte, Initiation is always through Daikonomikon. Wa has the Legacy Pedagogue merit.

    Ritual: Attainments with Scene-long casting times require the practitioner to center themselves using High Speech mantras, attuning their will to the Forces of the Fallen World.

    The Ember Within
    (Forces ●) Initiation
    The first lesson of the Iron Tower is that the body is a tie that can be loosened, with the correct application of will. By performing their meditative exercises, the Acolyte is able to supplement their flesh-puppet form with a measure of true strength.
    Kinetic Efficiency
    Duration = Forces (Reach to Advanced Duration)
    Potency = 1, 2 at Forces 2, 3 at Forces 4
    Range = Self
    Casting Time = Scene

    COMMENTARY: Low-level Forces powers are a little light on the ground for something like this, but I'm happy enough.

    (Space ●)
    Once you’ve realized that the body is not the final arbiter of your abilities, the more esoteric limitations begin to fall away. After all, where we’re going, we won’t need eyes.
    Outward and Inward Eye
    Duration = Space (Reach to Advanced Duration)
    Potency = N/A
    Range = Self
    Casting Time = Scene

    COMMENTARY: A little leery of this one theme-wise, but not many other Space spells work. Correspondence might be OK, but the Reach doesn't work and the theme is even weaker than OAIE.


    Shedding Dross
    (Forces ●●) Meditative Mind 1
    Mage Armour is the birthright of every Wise One, but many never progress beyond the most rudimentary sheath of Arcana-aspected Mana. Apprentices of the Iron Tower refine their control, learning to weave their defensive lattice through nothing more than sheer will.
    *Non-spell effect* Forces Mage Armour does not require Mana to activate or switch into.

    COMMENTARY: Nearly identical to the Praetorian Prelacy, although a bit more narrow. Which will probably raise a few questions among the paranoid.

    (Space ●●)
    In a simple -if inelegant- working, the Acolyte partially disentangles themself from the restrictive concepts of “speed” and “distance”.
    Ground Eater
    Potency = Space
    Duration = One Day, One Week at Space 4 (Reach to Advanced Duration)
    Range = Self
    Casting Time = Instant (Reach to Instant Casting)

    COMMENTARY: I'm actually not sure if this stacks with Levitation's flight speed. Still useful until you get there though.


    Like Raindrops on Hot Iron
    (Forces ●●●) Between Ticks OR Fast Spells
    Disciples of the Iron Tower have internalized many lessons from their Supernal task-masters, teaching that have begun to coalesce into the ability to reach beyond the bounds of their flesh-puppet. While a hammer to the scalpel of their elders, Disciples of the Iron Tower are capable of simple levitation and brutal redirection
    Control Gravity
    Duration = Forces
    Potency = N/A (1)
    Scale = Up to "Small Room", "Large Room" at Forces 4
    Range = Sight (Reach to Sensory Range)
    Casting Time = Instant (Reach to Instant Casting)

    COMMENTARY: Originally had Turn Momentum here. Useful, if boring. Environmental Shield is in a similar boat, as an alternative. Control Gravity acts as a more direct precursor to TK - you can make things levitate right at the boundaries, or send someone flying if you angle it.

    (Space ●●●)
    While the Acolyte seeks to transcend the limitations of space and form, they have no desire to leave themselves vulnerable. Girding themselves in a bulwark of will, the Acolyte resists all but the most puissant of unwanted Space spells.
    Ward
    Duration = Space (Reach to Advanced Duration)
    Potency = N/A (2, 3 at Space 4)
    Range = Self
    Casting Time = Instant (Reach to Instant Casting)

    COMMENTARY: I originally has it Keyed instead of instantly cast, specifically "Caster believes they are helping the Acolyte". It was a neat concept, but not on theme. Now you raise and lower it at will. Makes it inconvenient to teleport them to safety if they don't know it's coming though.


    What We See, We Hold
    (Forces ●●●●) Meditative Mind 2
    Adepts of the Iron Tower have begun to master the art of the distant grasp - to enact ones will beyond the reach of one’s flesh. Though not versatile enough to truly replace their flesh-puppet, many Acolytes at this level prefer to use this ability whenever possible.
    Telekinesis
    Duration = Forces
    Potency = 3
    Scale = Up to Size 5
    Range = Sight (Reach to Sensory Range)
    Casting Time = Instant (Reach to Instant Casting)

    COMMENTARY: TK is an awesome spell but a bastard to make into an Attainment. You'd need to put it in the Master slot and make it Aimed to get the most use out of it, but at that point it just isn't worth it.

    (Space ●●●●)
    Merging concepts of the spell “Co-Location” with “Telekinesis”, the Acolyte no longer needs to concern themselves with the Speed of their handled objects. While brute strength and fine dexterity still dictates their distant reach, transporting an object from place to place requires a mere flicker of will.
    *Non-spell effect* Subjects being moved with Telekinesis shift instantly between points within Sight Range. Moved objects have no momentum, and, as they cannot manifest within the same spatial location as other objects, make for poor weapons. The Acolyte can choose to forgo this benefit each time they activate an instance of this Attainment, but cannot alter an instance once cast.
    Base Spell:
    Co-Location
    Duration = Space
    Potency = N/A
    Range = Sight (Reach to Sensory Range)
    Casting Time = Instant (Reach to Instant Casting)

    COMMENTARY: Co-Location is obviously not the exact effect being used here, but it's the closest to what I have going on. It's effectively blurring the locations TK is moving objects to. It was the closest I could get to making TK into an effective Attainment without breaking general design conventions, since now you only have to choose between strength and finess.


    Scorn the Profane Earth
    (Forces ●●●●●) Meditative Mind 4
    The upper limit for those Acolytes who have not yet become Seekers is to scorn gravity’s hold. The earth, the greatest symbol of the tyranny of Matter, need no longer stain the Acolyte’s sole. Some masters attune objects and even other Mages to this understanding, loaning them a sheath of will that allows those so gifted to fly of their own volition.
    Levitation
    Duration = Forces (Reach to Advanced Duration)
    Potency = 3
    Scale = Up to Size 5
    Range = Self/Touch
    Casting Time = Scene
    NOTE: Reach to "Free Flight". Objects affected by this power can be “tethered” - given a designated surface and remaining a set distance from that point until willed elsewhere.

    COMMENTARY: So flight is obviously the draw here, but you can also use it for dramatic wardrobes. Ioun stones, floating weaponry, the like. Interesting note - this is technically a way to make returning weapons. Once you've thrown it, spend an Instant Action to recall it. Give the item a mind via Golem or Familiar possession, and you don't even have to do that. And both of those options give you a Dancing Blade too!

    (Space ●●●●●)
    Disregarding the trivialities of “distance”, the Acolyte is simply wherever they wish to be.
    Teleportation
    Potency = Space
    Duration = N/A (1)
    Scale = Up to 4 subject or up to Size 7
    Range = Sight/Sympathetic (Reach to Sensory/Sympathetic Range)
    Cost = 0 (1 if using Sympathetic Range)
    Casting Time = Instant (Reach to Instant Casting)

    COMMENTARY: Teleport. Good old workhorse of the Space wheelhouse. In this case, it's an excuse to blink wherever you want to be rather than walk.


    Storyhooks and Secrets

    ● Acolytes often aquire small Perfected gemstones to Imbue, and petition their masters to tether these stones to them. Despite the contradictory nature of this use of Matter, Acolytes insist that transluscent materials somehow circumvent their normal distaste. While this fashion choice usually assumed to be an affectation of tradition, it is actually in emulation of an Artifact held by the inner circle of the Legacy. This diadem, which appears as a flawless Perfected sapphire, floats in a steady circle around the head of whomever owns it. The gem radiates a constant effect similar to the dispellation-enhancing version of As Above, So Below, and under Active Mage Sight the gem is trailed by a High Speech script that fades as the stone reaches it again. Few are allowed close enough to study what the script says, and all who do refuse to speak of it. Speculation amongst credulous Initiates is that it is the crown of the lost Kings of Atlantis.

    ● The few Arrows in the Legacy are prone to the construction of "dancing blades"; levitating weapons that can fight alongside their owner. While an Imbued Golem spell is not unheard of, it is more common for the Acolyte to bind a Familiar to Claim the item. Ownerless blades turn up on occasion, and Arrow Acolytes are relentless in reaquiring them for the Iron Tower.


    OTHER

    Lord In Iron
    Rank 2 Pandemonian Imp
    Power 6 Finesse 2 Resistance 6
    Vice: Predjudice. The Lords In Iron have a borderline irrational hatred of the Matter Arcana
    Virtue: Enduring. Iron only has significance in the context of sentience, and our will is iron.
    Ban: Cannot use or act against a spell of the Matter Arcana.
    Bane: An item blessed by an Apeiron or servant of The Chancelor within the last year. This need not have been a mechanical effect, simply openly approving of the item counts.
    Arcana: Forces 2, Mind 1, Space 2
    Mana: 15
    Corpus: 12
    Willpower: 8
    Initiative: +8
    Defence: 2
    Speed: 8
    Size: 6
    Trial: Destroy an item that could be used as a Bane against a Lord In Iron

    A Lord In Iron appears as a hulking, skeletal suit of multi-hued armour, scintilating with the light of an infinite spectrum. They carry weaponry reminiscent of kingly rods, often flanged maces and sturdy spears. Though most who have seen beneath the armour glimpse a vast hollowness within, those versed in Space perceive an inexorable gravity given tenous form. These Supernal Entities wage an eternal war against Matter, although all are quick to claim that they war agains tthe perversion of Matter wrought by the Exarch. This distinction is more or less imperceivable to any but themselves. Sceptical Mages worry that these entities are somehow "broken", a terrifying thought to apply to a denizen of the Phenominal Realm.

    Lords In Iron are rarely summoned by anyone besides prospective members of the Order of the Iron Tower, although they are known to be terrifying foes to unleash upon servants of The Chancelor.

    Mastegoi who favor Forces spells occasionally find a
    Lord having designated themselves to be the Mage's Supernal Watcher. Such Mages will be treated with great respect by members of the Order of the Iron Tower, but often face great tribulations with any Matter-adjascent endevor they undertake.
    Last edited by Cauthon; 11-29-2022, 06:34 PM.


    Monkish Asexual.

    I make Legacies when I'm bored. They're of middling quality, but have a look if you're interested. Advice and suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

    Comment


    • #77
      "Not another one of you gunslingers, trying to cosplay a western hero or Inspector Gadget. You can make a backpack full of resources ? Last time I was traveling to uphold the Lex, I had an entire estate in my coat pocket, complete with 3 star accomodations. I did it by using a meaninful Arcanum, like Space.

      You can make a weapon that does multiple types of damage ? Listen young one, I just teleport my enemies to the bottom of the Marianas Trench. No amount of gun fu would save you from the crushing water pressure. Had you studied a more worthy Arcanum, like Forces, then you would be fine. But instead you chose to learn about the distractions against which we test ourselves.

      [Cranky old mage rambling ensues]"

      I like the psionic feel of them. I think only the third Attainment doesn't fit as well. You can only Turn Momentum once, using you action, which doesn't fully capture the telekinetic defense fully. Maybe a Shielding against kinetic damage ? That stops knives, bullets and partially deals with explosions.
      Last edited by KaiserAfini; 11-21-2022, 08:21 AM.


      New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.

      The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists (Mind/Time)
      The Szary Strażnik, an Obrimos Legacy whose invisible hands guide through the Glyphs of Fate (Fate/Prime)

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by KaiserAfini View Post
        I like the psionic feel of them. I think only the third Attainment doesn't fit as well. You can only Turn Momentum once, using you action, which doesn't fully capture the telekinetic defense fully. Maybe a Shielding against kinetic damage ? That stops knives, bullets and partially deals with explosions.
        I'm not quite happy with it either, but the Apprentice power already provides a kinetic/energy barrier in the form of costless Mage Armour. It made TM a kind of expansion off of that, which in turn feeds into TK. I toyed with Environmental Shield as an alternative- either Instant Cast and Advanced Duration for an "always on" feel, or Advanced Duration and Potency to Primary for immunity to even the hypothetical Extreme Environment 5.

        Alternatively, I could change TM to only be active while Mage Armour is, and give it the "Reflexive Turning" Reach effect.

        There's also Control Gravity, which would be a precursor to TK. Instant Casting and Sight Range, used to change gravity's pull within a given location. Starts at "small room" maximum size and progresses to "large room" because of Scale. Make it at an angle and you can send people flying backward or in an arc. Make it low/weak enough and you can have stuff levitate right at the boundaries.

        And of course, there's the "bruiser" option of Telekinetic Strike. Instant-aimed, for creating a sphere of compressed kinetic energy to hadouken your enemies with. Boring and almost entirely combat-oriented, but useful.
        Last edited by Cauthon; 11-20-2022, 06:28 PM.


        Monkish Asexual.

        I make Legacies when I'm bored. They're of middling quality, but have a look if you're interested. Advice and suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

        Comment


        • #79
          Yay! New Supernal Entity! I always enjoy seeing new ones, irregardless of the Supernal Realm involved!

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Demigod Beast View Post
            Yay! New Supernal Entity! I always enjoy seeing new ones, irregardless of the Supernal Realm involved!
            First time making one, not super confident about the Ban/Bane and Trial


            Monkish Asexual.

            I make Legacies when I'm bored. They're of middling quality, but have a look if you're interested. Advice and suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

            Comment


            • #81
              Control Gravity sounds great. Its the rough telekinetic push and pull. The normal Telekinesis spell is the scalpel used when you need control and precision. But when you want to draw the McGuffin to you now, repel melee combatants or disable someone by making everything that is nearby and not nailed down fall towards the center of an area (think the biobomb power from Prototype 2), then its as reliable a tool as can be.


              New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.

              The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists (Mind/Time)
              The Szary Strażnik, an Obrimos Legacy whose invisible hands guide through the Glyphs of Fate (Fate/Prime)

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Cauthon View Post
                SEED - Success forgives eccentricity

                The Fixers
                Free Council Acanthus
                Mind/Time

                Initiate(Brain Blast!)
                Perfect Recall - Instant Casting
                Quantum Flux - Instant Casting
                The Fixer gains the benefits of Quantum Flux, on any task related to the memory they're recalling

                Apprentice (Trust Me, I'm a Professional!)
                One Mind Two Thoughts - Advanced Duration, "Instant Tasks"
                Fools Rush In - Advanced Duration
                The Fixer gains the benefit of Fools Rush In, so long as they have one thought-track to devote to the task

                Disciple (No Time To Explain, Get In The Car!)
                Clear Thoughts - Instant Casting
                Serendipity - Instant Casting, "Any Skill"
                Concentrates momentarily to surpress penalties by powering through hardship, the brief clarity also provides them the insight needed to progress (ie Serendipity)

                Adept (Don't Try This At Home Kids!)
                Enhance Skill - Instant Casting, Advanced Duration
                The Right Tool - Instant Casting, Potency Switch to Primary
                The Fixer can designate random items as appropriate tools for whatever Skill(s) they're currently enhancing

                Master (I Am The Very Model of a Modern Major General!)
                Gain Skill - Advanced Duration, Potency Switch
                Superlative Luck - Instant Casting, Advanced Duration, Potency Switch
                The Fixer spends a Scene studying up on the given Skill. For the Duration, they can activate Superlative Luck to give themselves the Rote Quality on rolls with that Skill.

                Love your Fixers idea (BTW it should not be Time but Fate the optional arcana), from a mechanical point of view, metagaming a bit, which ones do you think are the best Mind, Fate and Time spells as attainments?

                I was thinking these:



                Geniuses
                Free Council / Acanthus
                Mind / Time

                Initiate (Focused Mind)
                Perfect Recall - Instant Casting
                Momentary Flux - Instant Casting

                Apprentice (Savant Aptitude)
                One Mind, Two Thoughts - Advanced Duration, "Instant Tasks"
                Constant Presence - Advanced Duration

                Disciple (Extraordinary Defense)
                Mental Shield - Advanced Duration, "Goetia Attacks"
                Shield of Chronos - Advanced Duration, "Fabricate Timeline"

                Adept (Enhanced Nature)
                Augment Mind - Instant Casting, Advanced Duration
                Shifting Sands - Instant Casting, "Scene Return"

                Master (Great Mastery)
                Enhance Skill - Instant Casting, Advanced Duration, Switch Primary Factor
                Prophecy - Instant Casting, "Social Plan"


                When I say the best mechanically, I mean something helpful often and not withstand so successes are assured.



                EDIT: modified based on Cauthon's recommendations.
                Last edited by lbeaumanior; 12-01-2022, 07:53 PM.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by lbeaumanior View Post
                  Love your Fixers idea (BTW it should not be Time but Fate the optional arcana)
                  Ah, good catch, thanks.


                  Originally posted by lbeaumanior View Post
                  from a mechanical point of view, metagaming a bit, which ones do you think are the best Mind and Fate spells as attainments?
                  That's a very subjective question. What the ST runs will dictate a lot of what is useful, and the design conventions mean you can tweek spells if you can work in thematic limitations. However, I'd say the most generically-applicable spells are:
                  Mind:
                  • Augment Mind, Enhance Skill, and Gain Skill. Those three enhance your dice pool, and you can have a ton of them up at once thanks to not needing Spell Control.
                  • You can make arguments for Psychic Genesis, which I know KaiserAfini has a soft spot for due to Familiar shenanagins, but as an Attainment there isn't enough Reach to make it hugely useful. Everywhere can make it slightly useful for momentary Goetia swarms, but that means it needs to be a Space-primary Legacy. A Time-primary Legacy could use Time In A Bottle and spend the Reach on Advanced Duration or Advanced Scale, but they're only Rank 1 entities and as such of limited utility. As an Attainment you could probably get away with throwing in a limitation in exchange for a free Reach; "My librarian Legacy's Master Mind Attainment can only create Advanced Duration Goetia of novels, but the entities are all Rank 2".
                  • Social Networking can be very useful at Advanced Duration - spend a Scene every week renewing a given merit of the three and it stays at 5 dots. Good way to rival Seers in the social arena.
                  • Psychic Domination is killer when protected from Dissonance - place it in the Master slot and you can force people to obey your every command. Normally, I'd rule that it starts getting eroded very quicky on Sleepers, since the subject is going to be very aware of their will not being their own. Probably have to make it Instat-Cast, Aimed, Advanced Duration, and "Any Order", which means it can still miss on the "Aimed" portion.
                  • One Mind, Two Thoughts gives you extra actions. Always useful, even if they're limited to only mental. Perfect Recall is a neat power, but utility will depend on how much nitpicking your ST requires.
                  Fate:
                  • Any "lucker" spell. That is, stuff like Quantum Flux, which eliminate penalties, and Exceptional Luck / Superlative Luck which add dice or give Rote qualities.
                    EL makes an OK Apprentice Attainment with either Instan Casting or Advanced Duration, or as an Adept Attainment if your ST allows the "spellcasting roll" Reach.
                    SL makes a good Disciple or Master Attainment, using the exact same logic as EL.
                  • Serendipity as an Disciple Attainment (Instant Casting, "Any Skill") will make you into a true McGuyver - in any mundane scenario, you can immediately twist thing around to a Skill of your strength.
                    As an Apprentice Attainment (Instant Casting, "Same Skill Group"), you're still skilled, but still limited based on what your skill-spread is. Making it Scene Casting, "Same Skill Group" is still useful, but you can't do it on the fly.
                    As an Initiate, it's a good way to become a minor prophet or detective, regardless of if you make it Instant Cast or "Same Skill Group"
                  • Fools Rush In isn't as useful as the stuff above, but it still keeps you from being at a disadvantage in most scenarios.
                  Originally posted by lbeaumanior View Post
                  I was thinking these:


                  Geniuses
                  Free Council Acanthus
                  Mind/Fate

                  Initiate (Past and Future)
                  Perfect Recall - Instant Casting
                  Serendipity - Instant Casting

                  Apprentice (The Right Person)
                  Know Nature - Instant Casting, "Aspirations + Obsessions"
                  Shifting the Odds - Instant Casting

                  Disciple (Multi-tasker)
                  One Mind, Two Thoughts - Instant Casting, Advanced Duration, "Instant Tasks"
                  Warding Gesture - Instant Casting, Advanced Duration

                  Adept (At Home Everywhere)
                  Universal Language - Instant Casting, Advanced Duration
                  Chaos Mastery - Instant Casting

                  Master (Full Protection)
                  Mental Shield - Instant Casting, Mind Arcanum, other supernatural, Advanced Duration
                  Miracle - Instant Casting
                  Know Nature as you have it will require you either Touch the target, or Aim to hit them. Not bad, but something to consider. 21c Hermit is of the opinion that as an Attainment Aimed spells don't need to be rolled to hit, but I disagree and design accordingly.

                  Apprentice Shifting the Odds is effectively useless without Advanced Duration. I'd either swap it and Warding Gesture around to bump it up a slot, or make it Scene-cast, Advanced Duration.

                  Universal Language isn't hugely useful as an Attainment, since there's low chance of the spell version being affected by Dissonance. It won't take up spell-control and is effectively always on though, so it isn't useless or anything.

                  Chaos Mastery is fine, but Miracle is actually less useful than it seems at first glance. Because of how little reach you have to work with, Miracle is basically going to be Chaos Mastery again. And both suffer from "Touch/Aimed" syndrome. In general, I find that the best spells for a given slot come from a practice at least one level lower; Adept spells are usually better in the Master slot than Master spells, Disciple spells over Adept spells in the Adept slot, and so on.

                  Mental Shield you've got listed with "Mind Arcanum" as a Reach effect. What is that? I only see the "Other Supernaturals" Reach effect in the book
                  Last edited by Cauthon; 11-22-2022, 08:38 PM.


                  Monkish Asexual.

                  I make Legacies when I'm bored. They're of middling quality, but have a look if you're interested. Advice and suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Cauthon View Post
                    That's a very subjective question. What the ST runs will dictate a lot of what is useful, and the design conventions mean you can tweek spells if you can work in thematic limitations. However, I'd say the most generically-applicable spells are:
                    Mind:
                    • Augment Mind, Enhance Skill, and Gain Skill. Those three enhance your dice pool, and you can have a ton of them up at once thanks to not needing Spell Control.
                    • You can make arguments for Psychic Genesis, which I know KaiserAfini has a soft spot for due to Familiar shenanagins, but as an Attainment there isn't enough Reach to make it hugely useful. Everywhere can make it slightly useful for momentary Goetia swarms, but that means it needs to be a Space-primary Legacy. A Time-primary Legacy could use Time In A Bottle and spend the Reach on Advanced Duration or Advanced Scale, but they're only Rank 1 entities and as such of limited utility. As an Attainment you could probably get away with throwing in a limitation in exchange for a free Reach; "My librarian Legacy's Master Mind Attainment can only create Advanced Duration Goetia of novels, but the entities are all Rank 2".
                    • Social Networking can be very useful at Advanced Duration - spend a Scene every week renewing a given merit of the three and it stays at 5 dots. Good way to rival Seers in the social arena.
                    • Psychic Domination is killer when protected from Dissonance - place it in the Master slot and you can force people to obey your every command. Normally, I'd rule that it starts getting eroded very quicky on Sleepers, since the subject is going to be very aware of their will not being their own. Probably have to make it Instat-Cast, Aimed, Advanced Duration, and "Any Order", which means it can still miss on the "Aimed" portion.
                    • One Mind, Two Thoughts gives you extra actions. Always useful, even if they're limited to only mental. Perfect Recall is a neat power, but utility will depend on how much nitpicking your ST requires.

                    Fate:
                    • Any "lucker" spell. That is, stuff like Quantum Flux, which eliminate penalties, and Exceptional Luck / Superlative Luck which add dice or give Rote qualities.
                      EL makes an OK Apprentice Attainment with either Instan Casting or Advanced Duration, or as an Adept Attainment if your ST allows the "spellcasting roll" Reach.
                      SL makes a good Disciple or Master Attainment, using the exact same logic as EL.
                    • Serendipity as an Disciple Attainment (Instant Casting, "Any Skill") will make you into a true McGuyver - in any mundane scenario, you can immediately twist thing around to a Skill of your strength.
                      As an Apprentice Attainment (Instant Casting, "Same Skill Group"), you're still skilled, but still limited based on what your skill-spread is. Making it Scene Casting, "Same Skill Group" is still useful, but you can't do it on the fly.
                      As an Initiate, it's a good way to become a minor prophet or detective, regardless of if you make it Instant Cast or "Same Skill Group"
                    • Fools Rush In isn't as useful as the stuff above, but it still keeps you from being at a disadvantage in most scenarios.

                    Great list, thanks.


                    Originally posted by Cauthon View Post
                    Know Nature as you have it will require you either Touch the target, or Aim to hit them. Not bad, but something to consider. 21c Hermit is of the opinion that as an Attainment Aimed spells don't need to be rolled to hit, but I disagree and design accordingly.
                    Got it.

                    Originally posted by Cauthon View Post
                    Apprentice Shifting the Odds is effectively useless without Advanced Duration. I'd either swap it and Warding Gesture around to bump it up a slot, or make it Scene-cast, Advanced Duration.
                    Shifting the Odds could find things immediately, so not completely useless:

                    "Casting the spell looking for a
                    kind of person in a crowd or an item anywhere it could appear
                    is usually enough to immediately succeed"

                    Originally posted by Cauthon View Post
                    Universal Language isn't hugely useful as an Attainment, since there's low chance of the spell version being affected by Dissonance. It won't take up spell-control and is effectively always on though, so it isn't useless or anything.
                    Understood.

                    Originally posted by Cauthon View Post
                    Chaos Mastery is fine, but Miracle is actually less useful than it seems at first glance. Because of how little reach you have to work with, Miracle is basically going to be Chaos Mastery again. And both suffer from "Touch/Aimed" syndrome. In general, I find that the best spells for a given slot come from a practice at least one level lower; Adept spells are usually better in the Master slot than Master spells, Disciple spells over Adept spells in the Adept slot, and so on.
                    Let me try to fix this.


                    Originally posted by Cauthon View Post
                    Mental Shield you've got listed with "Mind Arcanum" as a Reach effect. What is that? I only see the "Other Supernaturals" Reach effect in the book
                    I have an old copy but you are right, it was wrong, I will try to get an errata version of the core book.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by lbeaumanior View Post
                      Shifting the Odds could find things immediately, so not completely useless
                      Ah, that's true. I was thinking more in terms if wandering a city to find something, but if you're trying to find the literal needle in the haystack then it's fine.


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                      • #86
                        Cauthon now, what do you think are the best Time spells for attainments?

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by lbeaumanior View Post
                          Cauthon now, what do you think are the best Time spells for attainments?
                          Still going for "most broad utility", right? I'll say right now, having Time Attainments really encourages you to take the Fast Spells merit. It's not super useful for Time Attainments, but it is notable for freeing up Reach in your other Arcana track by making Aimed spells more palatable.

                          Initiate:
                          Divination with Instant Casting is easily spammable. While the binary Yes/No answers can be frustrating to the player, it keeps it from being a game-breaker. You could bump it up a slot at pick up "accurate answers", but then it's hard on the flow of the game.

                          Momentary Flux with Instant Casting is fun. It's like the Common Sense merit, but you can spam it and also use it on targets you can touch/Aim at. The mechanical benefits are minimal, unless you bump it up to the Apprentice slot for the Reach effect.

                          Perfect Timing with Advanced Duration (or Instant Casting, if you don't mind constantly reactivating it) gives you up to [Potency] dice as a bonus to Instant Actions you can spend a turn planning. Since Potency is Secondary for this one, you'll only ever reach a +3 die bonus at Time 4, but that's still nothing to sniff at. Combine it with Fate's Fools Rush In for some nice dichotomy.

                          Apprentice:
                          Choose the Thread at Instant Casting is always useful. Combine it with a Rote-er effect from Fate for extra oomph. Like the x Luck spells from Fate, you can bump it up to the Adept slot if the ST allows the "Spellcasting" Reach.

                          Constant Presence is something I'd want personally, but has debatable utility. It's a balm against the paranoia of not knowing the timeline has been changed, but that's about it. Put it at Advanced Duration, or move it to Disciple to have both Advanced Duration and Instant Casting.

                          Disciple:
                          Postcognition with Advanced Duration, the "scrub" Reach effect, and your choice of Temporal Sympathy or Instant Casting. Temporal Sympathy will allow you to check any point in time you can get Sympathy for, while Instant Casting can be spammed but only against short stretches of time. Bump it up one more slot to have your cake and eat it too .

                          Hung Spell with Instant Casting and Advanced Duration, plus Conditional Duration, can be very useful, but the only real benefit to making it an Attainment is that you don't have to keep a Spell Control slot filled by Hung Spell. Still have to maintain the spell that's being hung though.

                          Weight of Years at Instant Casting and Aimed is a straight up bruiser spell. Boring, if useful.

                          Adept:
                          Acceleration with Time In A Bottle, Advanced Duration and either of the Reach effects is useful. Bump it to Master and you can have both Reach effects.

                          Shifting Sands with Instant Casting and "Scene Rewind" is incredibly powerful. It's also a go-to power, which makes it somewhat overused.

                          Past As Present with Time In A Bottle and Advanced Duration makes you skilled in combat and social situations. As long as you can spend a point of Mana every week, it's always on. Predestination depression may start to set in tho.

                          Rend Lifespan is the same as Weight of Years, only it does more damage. You could add in Time In A Bottle and the Reach effect, since it totals out to one Mana per casting thanks to Attainment rules.

                          Master:
                          Prophecy with Instant Casting and Sight Range is similar to Divination. If you move the Reach out of Range and make it Instant Cast, Aimed, and "Social Plan", it's very useful for a social character. Use Time in a Bottle to get Instant Casting, Sight Range, and the Reach effect if you want, but you'll need a lot of Mana if you plan on using it in rapid succession.

                          Blink Of An Eye with Instant Casting is very useful to craftsmen and anyone else who uses a lot of Extended Actions. Getting money may be irrelevant to a Gnosis 8/9 Mage, but it sure as heck will allow your company to push out products in impossible time frames.

                          Corridors of Time with Time In A Bottle and Advanced Duration is... of mixed utility. On the one hand, time travel. On the other, only to Unchanged time, and using it in play can be difficult. You could move Reach from Duration over to Temporal Sympathy, but then you need a LOT of Mana to make more than momentary changes. Which, admittedly, may be all you actually need to make.

                          Temporal Pocket with Time In A Bottle and Advanced Duration is very similar to BoaE. The main difference is that BoaE is for getting stuff done quickly, while TP is for buying yourself time to think, heal, rest, or get non-Extended Action work done.

                          N/A
                          Veil of Moments is a trap. You can get some use out of it as a desperation survival tactic, but that's about it. If you use it, put it in the Master slot for the maximum number of exceptions.
                          Last edited by Cauthon; 11-23-2022, 03:39 AM.


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                          • #88
                            I would like to note, however, that my assessments are based solely on "I want to turn this spell directly into an Attainment". In practice, however, Attainments are best when they're flavored by the Legacy theme. That flavoring can allow you to drop, twist, or add effects to a given spell. The 11Q, for example, don't need Space in order to use their Adept Attainment, because it's limited to specific scenarios. Non-spell effects, like not having to spend Mana to raise Mage Armour, or broadening where Precise Force is applicable, are also very good Attainments.

                            And in my opinion, the absolute best Legacies are those whose Attainments build directly on each other- most of the 11Q is a good example of the optional track enhancing the primary, while -in my humble opinion- my Shadow-Wrights are a good example of high-level Attainments directly utilizing lower-level ones.

                            Theme and purpose has a mountain of relevance to Attainments. Veil of Moments, for example, is mostly useless to a combat-build when compared to a direct attack spell, but a Medic Legacy could see a ton of use for it during triage.
                            Last edited by Cauthon; 11-22-2022, 11:43 PM.


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                            • #89
                              Cauthon thanks for the answers!

                              I got confused with two things:
                              1. You have mentioned using Time in a Bottle, but isn't this only for spells not legacy attainments?
                              2. If an attainment spell is Duration primary and I add to it Advanced Duration, it means that I get Arcanum dot in duration x scene right?

                                Example; I have Mind 5, my Disciple level attainment I pick Mental Shield (Primary Factor Duration), I get two free reach, one for Instant Casting, other for Advanced Duration. The attainment is cast instantly and last 5 x scenes/hours right. What can I do to make it last a week? Switch primary to potence instead of instant casting right? since it will give it one week duration at Mind 5.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by lbeaumanior View Post
                                Guest thanks for the answers!

                                I got confused with two things:
                                1. You have mentioned using Time in a Bottle, but isn't this only for spells not legacy attainments?
                                2. If an attainment spell is Duration primary and I add to it Advanced Duration, it means that I get Arcanum dot in duration x scene right?

                                  Example; I have Mind 5, my Disciple level attainment I pick Mental Shield (Primary Factor Duration), I get two free reach, one for Instant Casting, other for Advanced Duration. The attainment is cast instantly and last 5 x scenes/hours right. What can I do to make it last a week? Switch primary to potence instead of instant casting right? since it will give it one week duration at Mind 5.
                                1. So you can include Utility Attainments when constructing Legacy Attainments. The catch is that it needs to make sense for it to be included - a Space-Primary Legacy's Adept and Master slots make sense to include Everywhere, since every member will have access to that. A Space-optional Legacy can have Everywhere only in the Optional Attainments, since not everyone who learns that Legacy's Primary-Arcana Attainments will have enough Space to access Everywhere.

                                I should specify that these assumptions are mostly extrapolation - since Sympathetic Range and Temporal Sympathy are both Utility Attainments, and they can be used in Legacy Attainments, its plausible that you can include others that make sense with that spell. There may also be a dev comment somewhere confirming it, but I really don't know on that count.

                                2. Attainment Durations are identical to spell Durations. Attainment casting times default to 1 scene, if you don't spend the Reach on Instant Casting. So in your example, your Mental Shield would last one year, since it has five jumps along the Duration chart.


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