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  • Pantheistic Legacy

    I've grown an interest on pantheism of late,thought about making a Legacy about it. But no ideas came. Can you all give me some suggestions?

  • #2
    Patheism under what lens ? Sikhism, Hinduism, Daoism, Confucianism, Neopaganism, something else ? Which aspect are you focusing on ? What Truth do they embody? If you have the core concept phrase, figuring out everything else is much more intuitive.


    New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.

    The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists (Mind/Time)
    The Szary Strażnik, an Obrimos Legacy whose invisible hands guide through the Glyphs of Fate (Fate/Prime)

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    • #3
      Originally posted by KaiserAfini View Post
      Patheism under what lens ? Sikhism, Hinduism, Daoism, Confucianism, Neopaganism, something else ? Which aspect are you focusing on ? What Truth do they embody? If you have the core concept phrase, figuring out everything else is much more intuitive.
      Could be a several coalition of followers of all the isms you mentioned. They are focused around a single magical style and emphasise the Pantheist aspect of their ism
      Edit to add their Truth could be "All Truths as True as the One Truth"
      Last edited by Nicolas Milioni; 11-11-2022, 07:17 PM.

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      • #4
        EDIT: didn't see your clarification, regardless, my thoughts are below, hope they are helpful.

        I'm going to go ahead and assume you mean Spinozan Pantheism (aka Universe is God).

        It is an odd one, but basically given what mages know about the Supernal vs Fallen, i think the closest thing to a Pantheism is worship of the Anima Mundi. The Soul of the World/Universe and everything. It would include the belief that after death souls return to the World Soul, and their individuality merged with it. Perhaps including a belief that humanity is an attempt by the Universe to understand itself, by experiencing itself (so returning to itself makes sense - would kinda work well with Prometheans, and possibly the indescribable god-like thing which makes them possible)

        The soul is not the Universe however, Pantheism proposes that the entity of the Universe is one entity. That means the God-Machine is a part of the Universe, and thus also describable as some function of this God (perhaps it is the immune system).

        I think focusing on mage, the Supernal is reduced in some sense to a reflection, the symbol-space that is the Supernal as a source code arising the Universe. But that the Supernal has no independent existence of its own, the Universe is God is One and All things, the mirror the seems external (reflecting the source code) might actually be the hardest to pin down.

        Perhaps it is part of the Universe, like a sense of self-reflection. But i prefer to interpret it as a veil. A way to look at the Universe which is not seperate. Mages just have a way to see and influence the Universe through these 5 veils (the paths).

        So, as for a legacy, i would focus on the Anima Mundi, or more generally on understanding the world. I don't know how you would build a legacy which acted on behalf to the Universe, so fulfilling the role of Universe understanding itself might work well.

        Unfortunately that could be very broad, every Arcana with 1 dot, to cast knowing and unveiling spells. And doesn't make a good legacy... The Shadow would be another good focus, with heirarchies of Spirits going up to God level being some kind of regulatory mechanism for ensuring the material parts of the Universe function well. Communing with the greatest of Spirit could be a good legacy focus.

        Ghosts could be a focus, understanding that - while the soul always returns, the unresolved business of ghosts contains the identity and lessons, and you could have a mage fixate on that. And see ghosts as not bringing their understanding back to the Universe. Thus helping ghosts (both in the Underworld and those with anchors remaining) resolve their unfinished business could make a great legacy.

        Obviously the study of the God-Machine could make sense. Or alternatively the Abyss - which i am going to assume is not any part of the Universe - so a legacy focused on removing Abyssal corruption would work. And finally i think a legacy decidated to summoning Supernal beings could fit nicely... Might even allow one member to summon being from multiple paths.

        I'm not sure how deep one would need to be into Pantheism to join one of these legacies, but there could be a mystery cult/nameless order which collectively represents the core philosophy, and a number of legacies acting independently pursuing their own service to the Universe.
        Last edited by orathaic; 11-11-2022, 07:25 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by orathaic View Post
          EDIT: didn't see your clarification, regardless, my thoughts are below, hope they are helpful.

          I'm going to go ahead and assume you mean Spinozan Pantheism (aka Universe is God).

          It is an odd one, but basically given what mages know about the Supernal vs Fallen, i think the closest thing to a Pantheism is worship of the Anima Mundi. The. Soul of the World/Universe and everything. It would include the belief that after death souls return to the World Soul, and their individuality merged with it. Perhaps including a belief that humanity are an attempt by the Universe to understand itself, by experiencing itself (so returning to itself makes sense - would kinda work well with Prometheans, and possibly the indescribable god-like thing which makes them possible)

          The soul is not the Universe however, Pantheism proposes that the entity of the Universe is one entity. That means the God-Machine is a part of the Universe, and thus also describable as some function of this God (perhaps it is the immune system).

          I think focusing on mage, the Supernal is reduced in some sense to some reflection, the symbols space that is the Supernal as a source code arising the Universe. But that the Supernal has no independent existence of its own, the Universe is God is one and all things, the mirror the seems external (reflecting the source code) might actually be the hardest to pin down.

          Perhaps it is part of the Universe, like a sense of self-reflection. But i prefer to interpret it as a veil. A way to look at the Universe which is not seperate. Mages just have a way to see and influence the Universe through these 5 veils (the paths).

          So, as for a legacy, i would focus on the Anima Mundi, or more generally on understanding the world. I don't know how you would build a legacy which acted on behalf to the Universe, so fulfilling the role of Universe understanding itself might work well.

          Unfortunately that could be very broad, every Arcana with 1 dot, to cast knowing and unveiling spells. And doesn't make a good legacy... The Shadow would be another good focus, with heirarchies of Spirits going up to God level being some kind of regulatory mechanism for ensuring the material parts of the Universe function well. Communing with the greatest of Spirit could be a good legacy focus.

          Ghost could be a focus, understanding that -while the soul always returns, the unresolved business of ghosts contains the identity and lessons, and you could have a mage fixate on that not bringing it's understanding back to the Universe. Thus helping ghosts (both in the Underworld and those with anchors remaining) resolve their unfinished business could make a great legacy.

          Obviously the study of the God-Machine could make sense. Or alternatively the Abyss - which i am going to assume is not any part of the Universe - so a legacy focused on removing Abyssal corruption would work. And finally i think a legacy decidated to summoning Supernal beings could fit nicely... Might even allow one member to summon being from multiple paths.

          I'm not sure how deep one would need to be into Pantheism to join one of these legacies, but there could be a mystery cult/nameless order which collectively represents the core philosophy, and a number of legacies acting independently pursuing their own service to the Universe.
          I like all of that. I could see them using Life as their main Arcanum

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          • #6
            I should say, i am a Pantheist. I may or may not include a Spinozan mage in my next chronicle.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by orathaic View Post
              I should say, i am a Pantheist. I may or may not include a Spinozan mage in my next chronicle.
              I just learned about it today,would you mind answering some more questions?

              Comment


              • #8
                Magic knows itself through Prime, which focuses on truth and revelation. Emotions beget ideas, ideas seek propagation, their propagation makes them more real, more present in our lives. Unless you know the secrets of Spirit, these principles that create reality Ex Nihilo (since high Ranking spirits can just make new things pop into existence) remain obscured.

                The God Machine is tremendously vast, knows the natural order, edits its own backdoors into it, creates systems harnessing it and hides from the world, then perhaps it holds the answers.

                Focus on studying the Machine, if you start comprehending its plans on a holistic level, then you will understand how it all fits together. With sufficient knowledge of both it and the Shadow, then a model for fundamentally creating or altering major aspects of reality may be designed, the pinnacle of the Ars Nova.

                I would probably make their approach heavily inspired by Tychoidian Cosmology as a way to see Pantheism under a technognostic lens.


                New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.

                The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists (Mind/Time)
                The Szary Strażnik, an Obrimos Legacy whose invisible hands guide through the Glyphs of Fate (Fate/Prime)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post

                  I just learned about it today,would you mind answering some more questions?
                  If you like, not sure if you want to PM or post in the thread but happy to chat about it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by orathaic View Post

                    If you like, not sure if you want to PM or post in the thread but happy to chat about it.
                    Say,is Is it right that some Pantheists believe the Universe is sentient,others that it is not?
                    Last edited by Nicolas Milioni; 11-12-2022, 12:51 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post

                      Say,is Is it right that some Pantheists believe the Universe is sentient,others that it is not?
                      Possibly, i can't say i talk to many other Pantheists, it is not an organised religion. But from my perspective, parts of the Universe are clearly sentient (us) but we don't know how to ascribed human-like qualities (like sentience) to the whole.

                      I think religions tend to personify/antromorphize their deities. And thus praying to them to ask for favour makes sense (if telepathy works); but Spinoza (having been raised in Judaism) would have flipped the script on that one - saying something along the lines of, 'God has given you the faculties to answer your own prayers. Instead of sitting and hoping for the Universe to hand you what you need, you should study the Universe, understand how it works, and manipulate things to create the things you needs' (very much compatible with Science as it happens, which could be considered the study of God from a Spinozan perspective).

                      My own understanding of nature includes bees/ants, and how their hive minds work (collective intelligence out of individual (near) automata) so it is possible that the Universe has a sentience of sorts, within our understanding of how things actually work. But that doesn't mean it is on a scale of human understanding (maybe each galaxy is an individual, and billions of years pass between meaningful interactions...)

                      (Edit: i hope i am doing Spinozan's philosophy a fair explaination, i came up with it first and was then utterly disgusted to find out that he had stolen my ideas and then had the audacity to travelled back in time 400 years before i was born just to claim the credit - so i may be mixing my own beliefs up with Spinozan's at times)
                      Last edited by orathaic; 01-25-2023, 08:41 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by orathaic View Post

                        Possibly, i can't say i talk to many other Pantheists, it is not an organised religion. But from my perspective, parts of the Universe are clearly sentient (us) but we don't know how to ascribed human-like qualities (like sentience) to the whole.

                        I think religions tend to personify/antromorphizr their deities. And thus praying to them to ask for favour makes sense (if telepathy works); but Spinozan (having been raised in Judaism) would have clipped the script on that one - saying something along the lines of, God has given you the faculties to answer your own prayers. Instead of sitting and hoping for the Universe to hand you what you need, you should study the Universe, understand how it works, and manipulate things to create the things you needs (very much compatible with Science as it happens, which could be considered the study of God from a Spinozan perspective).

                        My own understanding of nature includes bees/ants, and how their hive minds work (collective intelligence out of individual (near) automata) so it is possible that the Universe has a sentience of sorts, within our understanding of how things actually work. But that doesn't mean it is on a scale of human understanding (maybe each galaxy is an individual, and billions of years pass between meaningful interactions...)

                        (Edit: i hope i am doing Spinozan's philosophy a fair explaination, i came up with it first and was then utterly disgusted to find out that he had stolen my ideas and then had the audacity to travelled back in time 400 years before i was born just to claim the credit - so i may be mixing my own beliefs up with Spinozan's at times)
                        Spinoza sounds like a great philosopher

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          EDIT: Wrong pantheism.
                          Last edited by ArcaneArts; 11-13-2022, 03:13 AM.


                          Kelly R.S. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                          The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post

                            Say,is Is it right that some Pantheists believe the Universe is sentient,others that it is not?
                            About this, there are people who believes in a Panpsichic universe (me too).
                            In short, it states that any matter has the seed of sentience (not sapience), by the way of how particles works, and that the universe considered as a whole entity is a big thinking machine (of which we are components)

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Neos01 View Post

                              About this, there are people who believes in a Panpsichic universe (me too).
                              In short, it states that any matter has the seed of sentience (not sapience), by the way of how particles works, and that the universe considered as a whole entity is a big thinking machine (of which we are components)

                              That sounds like a way a Legacy would integrate the Matter component into the Mastigos view of the Tapestry, with the GM manipulating this understanding at the highest level.


                              New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.

                              The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists (Mind/Time)
                              The Szary Strażnik, an Obrimos Legacy whose invisible hands guide through the Glyphs of Fate (Fate/Prime)

                              Comment

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