Ask a simple question: Fallen World edition

[totalgit]

Hang on, then what is the range on the telekinetic force? Your normal armspan? Sight?

Touch, Sensory or Sympathetic, like every other spell.

The spell says "The mage can conjure telekinetic force to lift or manipulate an object remotely." An object being the subject of the spell. You then can area it to include all objects in the area, or choose multiple subjects and lift 5 objects in tough/sensory range etc.

[Cauthon]

Touch, Sensory or Sympathetic, like every other spell. (Or area and move everything in it)

See, that's what I originally assumed, but the fourth line of the spell description implies that the telekine force can switch what objects it's affecting. I'm pretty sure orathiac and 21C are right about it creating a "hand".

[totalgit]

See, that's what I originally assumed, but the fourth line of the spell description implies that the telekine force can switch what objects it's affecting. I'm pretty sure orathiac and 21C are right about it creating a "hand".

See above, i edited my post. The spell says it conjures telekinetic force to manipulate an object remotely. This is then the subject of the spell (ie AN OBJECT). The later text describes what you can then do with the objects/s (since applying extra targets will get you more objects hence plural) of the spell. If you want to telekinesis more objects then you use extra targets or area so that "an object" becomes "many or some objects". If one were being really pedantic then you could say that telekinesis cant be used on people since they aren't objects.
It should probably have said, "conjures tk force to manipulate a target/subject remotely..."

Plus what you are talking about is a spells scale, not range. If the spell did give the subject control over a tk hand then the range is still touch, sensory, etc to whoever it'd give the tk hand. This then obviously raises the question, how far could that hand go..luckily we don't have to answer that since it's now how tk works.

TK's scale is how many objects you can manipulate, its range is how far away you can manipulate those objects. Touch range might seem bad but then you might have more potency than natural strength...

[Cauthon]

See above, i edited my post. The spell says it conjures telekinetic force to manipulate an object remotely. This is then the subject of the spell. The later text describes what you can then do with the subject/s of the spell. If you want to telekinesis more objects then you use extra targets or area so that "an object" becomes "many or some objects"..

Right, which is why I originally assumed it has to target specific objects. But the spell description also says (emphasis mine) "if the mage fails to concentrate on moving the force, it simply hangs suspended, holding any objects it held before but no longer pushing or pulling" which implies the force exists even if it isnt holding a specific object.

Alternative take, then. If you have to cast it on an area, can you cast on yourself? That is, make yourself the epicenter so the field moves with you, allowing you to affect objects within [Scale Area] around you?

[totalgit]

Right, which is why I originally assumed it has to target specific objects. But the spell description also says (emphasis mine) "if the mage fails to concentrate on moving the force, it simply hangs suspended, holding any objects it held before but no longer pushing or pulling" which implies the force exists even if it isnt holding a specific object.

Alternative take, then. If you have to cast it on an area, can you cast on yourself? That is, make yourself the epicenter so the field moves with you, allowing you to affect objects within [Scale Area] around you?

The TK force is still manipulating the object/subject, it just doesn't do anything to it/move it without concentration.

Area spells don't move after being cast. If you cast an area spell with you as the epicenter and then move, the area of the spell doesn't move with you. (It gets abit iffy with area spells inside moving vehicles...)

Scale is either an area or subjects, you cant cast an area scale spell on yourself(a subject) but you can cast an area spell with yourself inside the area and then make yourself subject to the spell along with everything else in the area.

[orathaic]

I think the force appears according to casting - touch/sensory - but can be manipulated a theoretically infinite distance away from the mage. But you'll be limited in what you can do with it if you can't see what you're doing.

I don't know, touch range Telekenisis... Doesn't seem very tele...

[orathaic]

TK's scale is how many objects you can manipulate, its range is how far away you can manipulate those objects. Touch range might seem bad but then you might have more potency than natural strength...

I would dispute that last part. IF the object is the subject of the spell, for touch range you only have to be touching it while you cast the spell.

Imagine a Knowing spell cast at touch range on a spacecraft, you could keep knowing about the spacecraft no matter how far it travels so long as you still have duration.

But the spell description also says (emphasis mine) "if the mage fails to concentrate on moving the force, it simply hangs suspended, holding any objects it held before but no longer pushing or pulling" which implies the force exists even if it isnt holding a specific object.

Actually this is the most important part. If you Telekenisis a large rock into the air, and the relinquish the spell, it will just stay there until duration (or more likely dissonance) ends the spell.

So you can go and built a floating city...

[totalgit]

Actually this is the most important part. If you Telekenisis a large rock into the air, and the relinquish the spell, it will just stay there until duration (or more likely dissonance) ends the spell.

So you can go and built a floating city...

The interesting part is that a huge bolder which would normally require a strength of say 20 to be lifted by humans can still be moved at speed 1 with a TK spell that has a strength of 1. It is unclear if that could be vertical movement. (Personally, I would only allow that if the tk spell had enough strength potency to "lift" the object)

If you can get the strength to lift said city then sure why not.

Needing to touch the object only when the cast is standard. You only need be touching something when casting an hour-long shapeshift spell on another while casting and not stay touching for the entire hour sure. But this again opens up the question of how far away can you then manipulate the objects using tk, Maybe as far away as you like barring obstacles, not being able to see, etc, but then that's prone to easy abuse..

The shapeshifted person can go wherever they like after having the spell cast on them though so letting objects that can now move etc do so too isn't a stretch.

The idea of remote-controlling TK'd grenades or woese around corners or miles away with enough speed & duration is abit scary...

[orathaic]

The interesting part is that a huge bolder which would normally require a strength of say 20 to be lifted by humans can still be moved at speed 1 with a TK spell that has a strength of 1. It is unclear if that could be vertical movement. (Personally, I would only allow that if the tk spell had enough strength potency to "lift" the object)

If you can get the strength to lift said city then sure why not.

<Snip>

What Str is required to lift an object? Normally you roll Str+Stam to do a lifting task, but are there rules outside of MtAw core related to what you can lift? Should each increase in weight subtract 1 dice from the roll?

The closest i can see it welding weapons requiring a minimum str. But a Str 1 character can weild a chainsaw with only a -1 penalty

To circumvent this, you could use advanced scale to target multiple objects each at the limit of your potency based weight limits... Unless the TK has to roll it's str to lift things, which would reqire lots of dice.

Alternatively an advanced potency which gave +5 str per potency would make some sense (+1 reach effect, not an advanced potency reach)

[MorganG]

I don't know, touch range Telekenisis... Doesn't seem very tele...

Sorry I meant the force is conjured within touch range of the mage and then can be moved away at the force's speed.

Essentially I take it to be a bit like D&D's Mage Hand if you are familiar with that.

[Seraph Kitty]

What Str is required to lift an object? Normally you roll Str+Stam to do a lifting task, but are there rules outside of MtAw core related to what you can lift? Should each increase in weight subtract 1 dice from the roll?

Scale already covers the Size of affected targets; at least for magic, it wouldn’t make sense to worry about ‘the spells strength check’.

[Cauthon]

Scale already covers the Size of affected targets; at least for magic, it wouldn’t make sense to worry about ‘the spells strength check’.

Normally, yes, but Telekinesis specifically dictates that it has [Potency] dots in one of Strength, Dexterity, or Speed -or divided between all three with Reach- and a dot in the other two. Which implies it can only lift things up to a certain weight.

I'd just handwave any basic rolls up to however many dots were allocated, and have the power fail on anything heavier.

[Cauthon]

A Goetia can, with a little difficulty, be brought into Shadow or the Underworld. Can you bring a Ghost or Spirit into the Astral?

[21C Hermit]

A Goetia can, with a little difficulty, be brought into Shadow or the Underworld. Can you bring a Ghost or Spirit into the Astral?

The 1e book, Astral Realms, mentions that ghosts and spirits sometimes slip through cracks in reality into the Temenos. Apparently, no one's figured out if they're physically there, or projecting their consciousness just like mages. (Though with the Begotten introduced in 2e, I suspect the former.) Ghosts in particular are relatively numerous in the various afterlife-shaped Temenotic realms.

[TempleBuilder]

So, one can increase one's physical stats with Life Perfecting, that's pretty clear. What's not so clear is being able to do the same with other Arcana. I think it is pretty that Forces can increase a subject's Strength, but I don't think that extends to Dexterity since that's more about flexibility and precise movements. So, can Space increase Dexterity?

Could a spell Forces Shielding prevent a subject from moving? The idea would be that it impedes the force generated by a body that is required in order to move.