Ask a simple question: Fallen World edition

[Cauthon]

...... Or we can cast Space 4 Teleportation at empty air and at Indefinite Duration so that it repetitively brings fresh air from outside at each ritual-casting interval. Because screw Wisdom.

Would that work, though? I guess you could AoE cast it, but that would bring everything in the area with it... but I'm iffy on whether you can target the air like that. The "switch places" Reach would certainly support the concept, at any rate.

[21C Hermit]

Would that work, though? I guess you could AoE cast it, but that would bring everything in the area with it... but I'm iffy on whether you can target the air like that. The "switch places" Reach would certainly support the concept, at any rate.

Yeah, it’s a gray area subject to ST interpretation, but I’d allow it just for the absurdity and in-universe face-palming it’d invite

(And because I believe Space spells at least should be able to target ‘empty space’ (and the air in it), but that’s getting into technicalities)

EDIT: (hope editting works)

On second thought, maybe the teleportative ventilator really does bring in outside junk, and the architect set up a trash pit below the ‘air space’. Maybe another co-located portal to god-knows-where, or a disintegrator field (Annihilate Matter).

And now I realize I’m treading into the cackling mad scientist territory.

[Cauthon]

Yeah, it’s a gray area subject to ST interpretation, but I’d allow it just for the absurdity and in-universe face-palming it’d invite

(And because I believe Space spells at least should be able to target ‘empty space’ (and the air in it), but that’s getting into technicalities)

EDIT: (hope editting works)

On second thought, maybe the teleportative ventilator really does bring in outside junk, and the architect set up a trash pit below the ‘air space’. Maybe another co-located portal to god-knows-where, or a disintegrator field (Annihilate Matter).

And now I realize I’m treading into the cackling mad scientist territory.

I mean, I'm not opposed to the idea of things entering. A Pocket Dimension Sanctum that has a Co-Location portal "sky" would be a good way to let light and air in, and rain if the realm is cultivated into a living landscape. Just slap the "outside" portal horizontal in the sky of some remote location, like the middle of the Amazon or Glacier National Park. It just adds a couple extra layers of work, namely whatever shelter the creator desires plus the occasional "cleaning" to sift out excess Matter.

[21C Hermit]

I mean, I'm not opposed to the idea of things entering. A Pocket Dimension Sanctum that has a Co-Location portal "sky" would be a good way to let light and air in, and rain if the realm is cultivated into a living landscape. Just slap the "outside" portal horizontal in the sky of some remote location, like the middle of the Amazon or Glacier National Park. It just adds a couple extra layers of work, namely whatever shelter the creator desires plus the occasional "cleaning" to sift out excess Matter.

Hmm, with all the Space and Matter magic being thrown around, all of this builds up nicely to the Tamers of Stone. You might also want to look around their 1e writeup — I don’t remember if their book addresses magical architecture, but if any book does, that’s probably it.

[orathaic]

3. Mechanic-ish question, for a theoretical Pocket Dimension base. Relinquished/Indefinite Scrying can be used to make picture windows. Relinquished/Indefinite Co-Location (with the Portal and Visibility Reach) can be used to make doorways and windows, but more importantly air holes. However, doing so has the same effect as leaving your doors and windows open - physical detritus can enter easily, as can trespassers. What would be a way to work around this? Key the portal to only allow air through, and cloak it with Incognito Presence / Invisibility?

Use a portal on the moon with conjunctional force to only let sunlight through (is it conjunctional) then grow plants to produce real oxygen locally. (no ody goes to the moon, so no need to worry about veiling...)

EDIT: oh, i was misremembering the rules for additional Arcana from Ban. I would allow co-locate with additional Arcana to only allow through specific purviews of the Arcana to pass through. A 'sunlight portal' is one effect for the purpose of this spell.

[Cauthon]

Hmm, with all the Space and Matter magic being thrown around, all of this builds up nicely to the Tamers of Stone. You might also want to look around their 1e writeup — I don’t remember if their book addresses magical architecture, but if any book does, that’s probably it.

Sadly, from what I can skim it does not. I might give a builder Legacy a shot though.

Use a portal on the moon with conjunctional force to only let sunlight through (is it conjunctional) then grow plants to produce real oxygen locally. (no ody goes to the moon, so no need to worry about veiling...)

Might get a bit prohibitive in terms of how much space 300-700 plants and their adjascent ecosystems would take up, though it's certainly a possibility.

Come to think of it, does Scrying produce actual light? 'Cause that would be the safer sunlamp option.

[orathaic]

Yeah, it’s a gray area subject to ST interpretation, but I’d allow it just for the absurdity and in-universe face-palming it’d invite

(And because I believe Space spells at least should be able to target ‘empty space’ (and the air in it), but that’s getting into technicalities)

EDIT: (hope editting works)

On second thought, maybe the teleportative ventilator really does bring in outside junk, and the architect set up a trash pit below the ‘air space’. Maybe another co-located portal to god-knows-where, or a disintegrator field (Annihilate Matter).

And now I realize I’m treading into the cackling mad scientist territory.

Teleportation does not have space as the subject, it specifically calls for testing the spatial co-ordinates of a non-spatial subject.

If you target an individual with an indefinite teleportation, their position will reset every ritual duration to whereever you moved them.

But with an AoE spell, it would automatically hit everything in the Area, so i suppose this does work ... I still think co-locate is the spell you want.

[MorganG]

Plants need water and carbon dioxide to make oxygen. Seems to me a Matter spell on the moon to make air is more elegant.

Edit: Sorry misunderstood. Though using Matter for carbon dioxide filtration directly removes the need for air holes.

[21C Hermit]

Plants need water and carbon dioxide to make oxygen. Seems to me a Matter spell on the moon to make air is more elegant.

Targeting the moon has a whole another problem of...... targeting the moon. You'll need something like a moon rock to lift sympathetic connections off, and finding one of those is a challenge on its own.

[Cauthon]

Plants need water and carbon dioxide to make oxygen. Seems to me a Matter spell on the moon to make air is more elegant.

Yeah, but then you need to be a Master of Matter and Space, at a minimum.

...how hard would it be for a dedicated Cabal to terraform another planet? You'd need, what, overlapping bubbles of Environmental Shield, where you introduce soil bacteria and progressively more complicated plant life? Keep spreading outwards... it would take a lot of Relinquishments, so there's definitely storyhooks there...

[MorganG]

Yeah, but then you need to be a Master of Matter and Space, at a minimum.

I'd put just air filtration at Matter Perfecting/Weaving, or Patterning at most. Get a Matter-using friend to make you a device or substance that can do it.

[Cauthon]

I'd put just air filtration at Matter Perfecting/Weaving, or Patterning at most. Get a Matter-using friend to make you a device or substance that can do it.

Transmutation is an Adept spell, but creating air whole-cloth would be Create Matter. And since the moon doesn't have much of an atmosphere to transmute...

Granted, you could transmute the rocks, but that would be grisly if the spell ends.

[MorganG]

Transmutation is an Adept spell, but creating air whole-cloth would be Create Matter. And since the moon doesn't have much of an atmosphere to transmute...

Granted, you could transmute the rocks, but that would be grisly if the spell ends.

Agreed. My later point was just that you can create your pocket dimension, teleport in some air to begin with and then have a Matter-enhanced object that passively filters the air so you don't die of carbon dioxide poisoning.

[orathaic]

Sadly, from what I can skim it does not. I might give a builder Legacy a shot though.



Might get a bit prohibitive in terms of how much space 300-700 plants and their adjascent ecosystems would take up, though it's certainly a possibility.

Come to think of it, does Scrying produce actual light? 'Cause that would be the safer sunlamp option.

I don't know about Scrying, i would presume it can produce light, but symbolically i would say no you can't grow plants by the light of a Scrying window.

[TempleBuilder]

2. Neolithic Awakened saw the Watchtowers in a very different way than modern Awakened. Presumably cultural differences have an influence, which compounds over time, but what would other eras look like? Would, say, Viking era Mastigos see something closer to the endless forests rather than the Iron Gauntlet, or the hungry sea rather than the Lead Coin? ^{Also, any theories on why the Neolithic towers were so small? Does each name add to the Watchtower's strength?}

I think the latter interpretation is part of the story. Remember, the Watchtowers are tools that allow the safe interaction with and changing of the Supernal. They do this by being pieces of the Supernal and preparing an environment where basic interaction won't dissolve unprepared souls. This prepared environment conforms to symbols that people can kinda readily understand. When someone signs their name, they permanently change the watchtower and build it up just a little. The put a little of themselves into the Supernatural. The environment's symbolism changes ( a little), one could say updating and growing to better be understood by people. That's just my interpretation though. It's also the best argument for the Free Council's view of As Below, so Above.

As for the first part...I see it as different people experiencing different things with the same symbolic themes. Each person gets whatever symbol set that best fits their soul, so a modern person can get "Angels" that look like "holy" figures from whatever mythology you want. That way you can get stuff like Pandemonic alien abductions and cosmic horror, or an Asgard-themed Aether. I like to think that also affects the nature of the stuff they might summon later down the line.