Ask a simple question: Fallen World edition

[KaiserAfini]

Sure Mastigos are all about challenge, maybe they would try to trigger a clash of wills to prevent the Psychic Domination from working?

Can you clash against yourself?

Yes, an example is when you try to use a spell that acts in opposition another you relinquished, you are Clashing against the Gnosis + Arcanum you had at the time. Mastigos have Willpower to spend if they are good at Mind, so why not see if they can conquer their own Awakened will ?

In addition, an irony of this all is that the instant version might not register. Someone is about to be sniped, Psychic Domination at sensory range to duck, that was close, you could swear you heard someone scream the instruction with palpable urgency. No one did, seriously ? So it was either good instincts or you have been working too hard, maybe go to sleep earlier, yeah, that's the ticket.

[orathaic]

If you lose your soul (through placing it in a soul jar, let's say) and your wisdom drops to 1, you can now take your soul back and perform acts of Hubris for a few days with falling wisdom (so you can perform some premeditated murder, which doesn't require a roll at wisdom 1-3) and you end up with all your wisdom restored, right?

[Satchel]

If you lose your soul (through placing it in a soul jar, let's say) and your wisdom drops to 1, you can now take your soul back and perform acts of Hubris for a few days with falling wisdom (so you can perform some premeditated murder, which doesn't require a roll at wisdom 1-3) and you end up with all your wisdom restored, right?

You regain Wisdom or Integrity lost to the Soulless Condition, i.e. Wisdom or Integrity lost from indulging your Vice, and Conditions directly resulting from that provisional Act of Hubris or breaking point go away once you get back the dot associated with the loss, but if you lose your soul and then drop your Integrity to 1 via mass murder without ever indulging your Vice you're not getting those dots back with any amount of napping.

This particular bit seems like the sort of thing for which the technicality of the categories of Act of Hubris being divided less granularly than individual dot ratings runs into the narrative fact that if you seriously contemplate doing this you probably don't have higher than Falling Wisdom in the first place.

[orathaic]

You regain Wisdom or Integrity lost to the Soulless Condition, i.e. Wisdom or Integrity lost from indulging your Vice, and Conditions directly resulting from that provisional Act of Hubris or breaking point go away once you get back the dot associated with the loss, but if you lose your soul and then drop your Integrity to 1 via mass murder without ever indulging your Vice you're not getting those dots back with any amount of napping.

This particular bit seems like the sort of thing for which the technicality of the categories of Act of Hubris being divided less granularly than individual dot ratings runs into the narrative fact that if you seriously contemplate doing this you probably don't have higher than Falling Wisdom in the first place.

I must have missed that distinction, but yes.

To your last point, if i use this in a game it will certainly be coming from some Rapt mage who experiments with it and lost their wisdom. Whether as an idea that is researched in some library's restricted section, or the Rapt mage going "sure, of course it will be fine! Look at me!"

[TempleBuilder]

Ever watch a video game speed run? Especially a glitch using one? People do crazy, often immoral in the context of the game, just to shave off a few milliseconds from their time. Some the more common stuff is exploiting loopholes in reality to phase through walls, teleport, gain near infinite speed and generally break physics to their hearts content. Does that sound like good inspiration for an Abyssal Legacy to you?

[jsnider3]

Ever watch a video game speed run? Especially a glitch using one? People do crazy, often immoral in the context of the game, just to shave off a few milliseconds from their time. Some the more common stuff is exploiting loopholes in reality to phase through walls, teleport, gain near infinite speed and generally break physics to their hearts content. Does that sound like good inspiration for an Abyssal Legacy to you?

It does sound pretty cool. I'd probably give the Legacy two variants, one for the Free Council and one for the Scelesti, where the Free Council version absolutely hates the Abyssal version and the Abyssal one is oddly fond of the Free Council guys.

[21C Hermit]

Ever watch a video game speed run? Especially a glitch using one? People do crazy, often immoral in the context of the game, just to shave off a few milliseconds from their time. Some the more common stuff is exploiting loopholes in reality to phase through walls, teleport, gain near infinite speed and generally break physics to their hearts content. Does that sound like good inspiration for an Abyssal Legacy to you?

Feels like a few unWise members of the Reality Stalkers Legacy, than an entire new Legacy. (Though novel Attainments are a thing……)

[TempleBuilder]

Feels like a few unWise members of the Reality Stalkers Legacy, than an entire new Legacy. (Though novel Attainments are a thing……)

I see your point. Though they don't really focus on speed like I am thinking of...hmm. Do we have any examples of an Abyssal version of an existing legacy?

[KaiserAfini]

I see your point. Though they don't really focus on speed like I am thinking of...hmm. Do we have any examples of an Abyssal version of an existing legacy?

Not exactly, but Nameless and Accursed has the rules for making them on page 96, and a sample one on page 119.

The description suggests Space and Forces. I could see them using a Shielding of Space and Forces to protect them them from Van Der Waals forces and pass unobstructed in the space, allowing them to glitch through walls.

[Cauthon]

How... divided can an Imbued Item be? Like, could you make a legion of Golems, with an associated horn that causes them all to animate when blown? That is, the Imbuement is spread out between the golems and the horn?

Context -

I'm trying to figure out how to make the Gjallarhorn. For the most mythologically acurate incarnation, it would just need to open an Avernian Gate to an Underwold realm where a ghostly army has already been amassed. But I like alternatives.

1. Horn Imbued with Quicken Corpse, set to "Area" Scale so it affects everything around the sounder. Requires corpses on-hand, and prone to Dissonance unless the Imbuement includes a combined-casting of Corpse Mask, or you prepared the corpses with concealing clothes/armour
2. Horn Imbued with Golem, using the same parameters as above. Again, requires you to have statues on-hand and is prone to Dissonance unless you included a Veiling spell of some sort. Invisibility, Incognito Presence, a Forces illusion, etc. Or prepare concealing apparel.
3. Horn and mannequins of some stripe, Imbued with Golem. Limited to number-of-subjects Scale, but if the Imbuement includes the mannequins there's a plausible argument that it's only working at the "Self" range. So when you blow the horn, all the mannequins animate regardless of where they are. Permanence can get you up to a high Advanced Duration, which gives you Reach for Advanced Scale and Instant Casting.
   1. That being said, Sympathetic Range would also be a reasonable requirement, in which case you'd need to use Create Sympathy's Lasting option on each mannequin and the horn. In which case you could just ignore the divided Imbuement, but it has other downsides, like the amount of Reach being used.

[21C Hermit]

How... divided can an Imbued Item be? Like, could you make a legion of Golems, with an associated horn that causes them all to animate when blown? That is, the Imbuement is spread out between the golems and the horn?

I think that you’d be Imbuing several different statues, or piles of conveniently humanoid rocks, etc (as opposed to a single swooping Imbuement), upon which you repeat the exact same trigger of “Rise when I blow this horn.”

[Cauthon]

I think that you’d be Imbuing several different statues, or piles of conveniently humanoid rocks, etc (as opposed to a single swooping Imbuement), upon which you repeat the exact same trigger of “Rise when I blow this horn.”

I edited in some context that's somewhat relevant.

In an attempt to create an army without murdering your Spell Control, Permenant Willpower, or Wisdom - Imbue a horn with Golem, and use Create Sympathy's Lasting effect between it and every mannequin you plan to affect, maybe?

EDIT: unrelated.
1. Is a "weapons" Ban possible, and if so what Conjunctive Arcana is it? Death, since they're implements of death? Matter, since they're tools?

2. For Psychic Domination, is "serve me" too broad a command? I assume so, just toying with the idea of a Shadow of Mordor-style domination Legacy.

[KaiserAfini]

I edited in some context that's somewhat relevant.

In an attempt to create an army without murdering your Spell Control, Permenant Willpower, or Wisdom - Imbue a horn with Golem, and use Create Sympathy's Lasting effect between it and every mannequin you plan to affect, maybe?

EDIT: unrelated.
1. Is a "weapons" Ban possible, and if so what Conjunctive Arcana is it? Death, since they're implements of death? Matter, since they're tools?

2. For Psychic Domination, is "serve me" too broad a command? I assume so, just toying with the idea of a Shadow of Mordor-style domination Legacy.

1- Either one would work
2- I think what Calebrimbor does is Forge Purpose, given that he is using Prime and Death primarily.

Regarding Gjallahorn, I think utilizing a hybrid approach might be helpful. Give it the Golem spell with conjunctional Fate 2 so the affected statue activates upon hearing its sound, set them to be obedient to the holder, and provide for them to have a default programming if the holder is not around and didn't give orders. Place you statues in the fallen, then install a radio receiver on them.

Prepare a radio/phone tower with Perfected tranmission ability and expanded range (Forces 3), making the waves able to reach through thick materials. Now you just need to sound the horn over the radio. The best part is, even if someone finds out about the tower, there are no clues or sympathetic ties to your army. An innocuous radio project by a mage, hidden in plain sight by a mask of banality, no one would suspect its the first domino in a much grander scheme. Modular pieces that build up to more than the sum of their parts, overall it should cost 1 permanent Willpower, with the imbuement relinquished safely with an exceptional success and the radio tower having an indefinite effect that was safely relinquished.

[Cauthon]

2- I think what Calebrimbor does is Forge Purpose, given that he is using Prime and Death primarily.

Really? I'm not sure giving orcs an Obsession quite lines up with forcing them to serve you...

Regarding Gjallahorn, I think utilizing a hybrid approach might be helpful. Give it the Golem spell with conjunctional Fate 2 so the affected statue activates upon hearing its sound, set them to be obedient to the holder, and provide for them to have a default programming if the holder is not around and didn't give orders. Place you statues in the fallen, then install a radio receiver on them.

Er... why does that need Fate 2? Golems will already have a basic programming, and definitely will if given the Mind/Spirit/Death Conjunctive effects.

Prepare a radio/phone tower with Perfected tranmission ability and expanded range (Forces 3), making the waves able to reach through thick materials. Now you just need to sound the horn over the radio. The best part is, even if someone finds out about the tower, there are no clues or sympathetic ties to your army. An innocuous radio project by a mage, hidden in plain sight by a mask of banality, no one would suspect its the first domino in a much grander scheme. Modular pieces that build up to more than the sum of their parts, overall it should cost 1 permanent Willpower, with the imbuement relinquished safely with an exceptional success and the radio tower having an indefinite effect that was safely relinquished.

I'm afraid I don't quite follow. Like I said, I don't understand why you'd need Fate, and it sounds more like 21c's suggestion of singular Contingent Imbuements triggered by "the sound of this horn blowing".

[KaiserAfini]

Really? I'm not sure giving orcs an Obsession quite lines up with forcing them to serve you...

Er... why does that need Fate 2? Golems will already have a basic programming, and definitely will if given the Mind/Spirit/Death Conjunctive effects.


I'm afraid I don't quite follow. Like I said, I don't understand why you'd need Fate, and it sounds more like 21c's suggestion of singular Contingent Imbuements triggered by "the sound of this horn blowing".

Yeah, Fate wouldn't be needed, my bad.

The main issue is getting the sound of the horn to them. Which would need something like a massive Co-Location for all the statues, or for it to be sounded in a place that already had that setup so all the statues would hear it. That would have a high Willpower cost when accounting for all spells.

This approach means that the horn is sounded on the tower, sent by the radio via broadcast, then the statues hear it via the radio receiver and activate. Essentially, technology is being used to make it easier to activate all of them and harder to sympathetically trace all of them, while saving a lot of Willpower as well.