Proximi Dynasty Affiliation?

[Tristissima et alia]

In today's episode of things I think about when prepping a game ~

a Proximi Dynasty descended from the last survivor of the Donner Party, Death/Life/Matter (Moros, obviously) . . . .

To whom would they be connected in mage society?
Would they be independent? Silver Ladder cuz they're statistically the most likely? Guardians of the Veil (their Blessings lend themselves a bit to sneaky things)? The Mysterium as a Mystery, being such a young and identifiable Dynasty? Mammon cuz the Chancellor wants people to see others as marketable objects? Sycorian for surviving and how? Kyrian or Peirasmon for casting a pall over the idea of settling California (it actually did the opposite)? Rhadamantian cuz death? The Adamantine Arrow cuz they can fight? The Free Council cuz California was almost all Nameless Orders in the mid-19th century?

[Michael]

Your main question is going to be very reliant on who are they now. Like, how do they relate to their past? Do they revere their past, as the point where they learned cannibalism was a way to power, or do they maybe see it as an enduring moral stain.

More practically, is cannibalism a part of their Curse, or is it an Oblation?

(Moros, obviously) . . . .

Strikes me as more Thyrsus tbh, though again, it'd depend how they see it.

I could actually see them as Mastigos if they view their past in a bad light (also, Space magic has a relevance for people who were stranded).

The Adamantine Arrow cuz they can fight?

The Arrow also an odd relationship to cannibalism.

[21C Hermit]

Seconding Mastigos for the parent Path, since the Mastigos Path’s themes are confrontation & transgression. Pioneers who had to resort to desperate measures fits the bill. (Especially with how Dark Eras reveal that the Path has resonance with deep forests and pathfinding.)

Order affiliations are going to slightly differ depending on the world-building and lore-crafting you do for them, though.

[Tristissima et alia]

Your main question is going to be very reliant on who are they now. Like, how do they relate to their past? Do they revere their past, as the point where they learned cannibalism was a way to power, or do they maybe see it as an enduring moral stain.

I'm creating this Dynasty as part of the backstory for a PC in the campaign I'm running. My player has created a Proxima surgeon who practiced stage magic as a hobby before signing her name to the Watchtower of the Leaden Coin.

More practically, is cannibalism a part of their Curse, or is it an Oblation?

Possibly neither, tbh. Their Blessings do include Devouring the Slain, as well as numerous references to the starvation they faced (Degrading the Form, Rotting Flesh, etc.), Cold Snap, and Alter Integrity (the Donner Party ate things like their oxhide roof, shoelaces, etc., before they started eating each other). There's definitely some, like, hunting reference in there as well, with Web of Life, Analyze Life, and Find the Balance. And finally, Hidden Hoard as a reference to Lewis Keseberg hiding away Tamsen Donner's money.

Strikes me as more Thyrsus tbh, though again, it'd depend how they see it.

I could actually see them as Mastigos if they view their past in a bad light (also, Space magic has a relevance for people who were stranded).

Well, I mostly meant obviously in that they had both Death and Matter XD I did consider Thyrsus at one point, but the benedetto already have a similar spread (Death/Life/Spirit), iirc. Also, I realized they should be Moros-attuned, based on the bottom-up design I'm doing (the PC is a Moros with Life 2). Space definitely has relevance for people who are stranded, but mostly in that it helps them become not stranded ASAP, which isn't really the vibe here.

The Arrow also an odd relationship to cannibalism.

Just that one Legacy, y/n? And I was under the impression that it was pretty definitively considered Left-Handed. I'm already playing with gray area in consilia naming Legacies Left-Handed in this campaign ~ one story will revolve around one of the Whipping Boys being up for nefandi status (he's innovating the Left-Handed version of the Legacy) and I've decided that the Bay Area Consilium hasn't declared Cloud Infinite Left-Handed like so many other consilia, out of an abundance of experimental and permissive attitudes out here.

Still....the idea of them being Arrow-affiliated is tempting, since the Whipping Boys are Arrows . . .

[Cauthon]

Could your player make one of their parents the Proximi instead of themselves, and just make themself a Sleepwalker prior to Awakening? It would give you more flexibility in the Dynasty, and give them some good potential familial tensions to play with. Nothing wrong with it being Moros, but the others are right about it being a very Mastigoian theme.

As for the Devourers... They're the only Cannibal Legacy in the Arrow that I can remember, but they're written up as if theyre prevalent enough to not be a one-off heresy. The flesh is strong.

[Michael]

I'm creating this Dynasty as part of the backstory for a PC in the campaign I'm running. My player has created a Proxima surgeon who practiced stage magic as a hobby before signing her name to the Watchtower of the Leaden Coin.

That makes sense.

Possibly neither, tbh. Their Blessings do include Devouring the Slain, as well as numerous references to the starvation they faced (Degrading the Form, Rotting Flesh, etc.), Cold Snap, and Alter Integrity (the Donner Party ate things like their oxhide roof, shoelaces, etc., before they started eating each other). There's definitely some, like, hunting reference in there as well, with Web of Life, Analyze Life, and Find the Balance. And finally, Hidden Hoard as a reference to Lewis Keseberg hiding away Tamsen Donner's money.

I dunno, these seem more like references than a coherent idea. Like, there's usually some kind of magical story or archetype that explains why a Proximi dynasty is the way it is.

Space definitely has relevance for people who are stranded, but mostly in that it helps them become not stranded ASAP, which isn't really the vibe here.

So, is the idea that they're perpetually haunted by the events of their ancestors? That would maybe fit more with being a Moros dynasty, and would explain why their blessings are all references.

That would make me think more Seers dedicated to the Psychopomp.

Just that one Legacy, y/n? And I was under the impression that it was pretty definitively considered Left-Handed.

That's right. I misremembered it as being a more common heresy than it actually is. Though, as Cauthon stated, the write-up does indicate that the Devourers keep appearing, despite being apparently stamped out.

[Cauthon]

One other thing to look at is the Arcana - a simple way to make a Proximi Dynasty is to choose a Watchtower, and one extra Arcana. So a Moros Dynasty would, say, have Matter and Death, with Space or Life being the outlier. It helps to tie them down thematically, though obviously this is just my suggestion rather than a hard-and-fast rule. Doubly useful if the Dynasty is tied in some way to a Legacy, such as the progenetor is/was a Living Daikonomicon.

[Tristissima et alia]

One other thing to look at is the Arcana - a simple way to make a Proximi Dynasty is to choose a Watchtower, and one extra Arcana. So a Moros Dynasty would, say, have Matter and Death, with Space or Life being the outlier. It helps to tie them down thematically, though obviously this is just my suggestion rather than a hard-and-fast rule. Doubly useful if the Dynasty is tied in some way to a Legacy, such as the progenetor is/was a Living Daikonomicon.

. . . Yes, that's what I did? They're Moros + Life.

[Cauthon]

. . . Yes, that's what I did? They're Moros + Life.

You're right, you did. Sorry, got sidetracked with something else and forgot.

[Isator Levi]

I don't think a point that the Adamantine Arrow is wary of cannibalism needs to revolve around a single Legacy, considering that it can still be a motif across a few warrior traditions that the Order might be wary of for Supernal connotations and what it means to their core ethos.

I feel as though when it comes to a Proximus Dynasty, the important question isn't who they fit with so much as what use the Order you assign them to can make of them. I would think that the Orders can find value in almost every approach, and that they don't exactly divvy up authority over a lineage based on who they think has greater entitlement to it. The idea about falling under the umbrella of predominant Nameless Orders because of geographic location is the most on point, I think.

I'd also say to not hesitate to give a family powers just because they're similar to a published group, since the most important distinguishing characteristics of a line of Proximi are the personality traits and traditions.

[Tristissima et alia]

Okay, I came up with a bit of a tagline to express some of what I'm going for with this as-yet-unnamed Proximi Dynasty (I would name them the Kesebergs or the Kesebergers, but Lewis and Philippine only had one son, born and died during the Donner Party, and 10 daughters. They wouldn't have kept their names in the mid-19th century . . . .).

Anyway, the tagline is,
"There are no villains here, no monsters, no crime. Just survival ~ haunting, dread survival."

I kind of like the association with the Psychopomp and Rhadamantian isn't quite wrong, being that Lewis became a bit of a shut-in after a couple of decades (random fact: he was the first to introduce lagers into Sacramento). But he was never charged and even won (though only technically ~ he was awarded $1 and then forced to pay court fees) a defamation suit against his own rescuers. Rhadamantian seems particularly invested in turning the whole Seers-are-prison-guards thing from metaphor into literal, boring reality.

There were two Nameless Orders and one group of Nameless prominent in the Bay Area in the mid-20th century: the Bay City Marshals from Dark Eras 2, the Brotherhood of the Barrel (which is me stealing a name from M:tAs for something quickly mentioned in Dark Eras 2) in Napa County (which is where Lewis Keseberg's second brewery was founded, in Calistoga), and the Gold Diggers, who were just a cabal not an Order.

• The Marshals seem wrong for this Dynasty to be attached to ~ the Marshals would likely see Lewis as a target, not an ally or tool.
• The Gold Diggers feel like they pull on the wrong symbolism, though the founders could easily have enjoyed some of Lewis's beer during the Gold Rush.
• I could see some sort of beer-vs.-wine conflict with the Brotherhood of the Barrel, the magical weakness of the (independent?) Proximi balanced by there being more of them. Kinda a backwoods feud kinda thing? I could also just see an alliance between the Dynasty and the Brotherhood built on the production of booze.

PENTACLE ALLIANCE

• The Free Council seems easy, with the general Nameless-ness of the 19th century Bay Area.
• As I said, they can easily turn sneaky, whether that goes thief or serial killer, with their Blessings, which does lend itself to an affiliation with the Guardians of the Veil, and I can definitely see that "haunting, dread survival" ~ and whatever happened during it to create the Dynasty ~ driving Lewis to get super invested in the idea of hiding the secrets.
• The Mysterium also obviously has a reason to adopt this Dynasty ~ the prevailing view is that Dynasties were founded by ancient archmages of the Time Before or maybe just after, and this Dynasty isn't even two centuries old!
• The Adamantine Arrow has been called out as having some associations with cannibalism, but "haunting, dread survival" is quite a distance from "I have become a dragon, reborn."
• I have a hard time seeing any affiliation with the Silver Ladder, so they are probably out.

SEERS OF THE THRONE

• I've already discussed the pros and cons of Rhadamantian.
• Lewis might be attracted to Orphean for the same reasons he might be attracted to the Guardians.
• Affiliating the Dynasty with Mammon would seem to cover themes more like your-neighbor-as-grocery-store-meat dehumanization and commodification, as well as Capitalism's favored tactic of creating deprivation as a way to force people to engage with it on its terms.
• Phemian would be a bit unusual ~ a little anachronistic and also, Lewis had his 15 minutes a long time ago.
• Paternoster could use Lewis as a metaphor for human aspirations/traps (some accounts of the Donner Party back then painted them as heroes and California as a paradise woth the sacrifice).
• Considering everything said and imagined about Lewis and his temper, I can see Dolusian having an easy time recruiting his descendants.
• I'm sure Praetorian could make use of some serial-killer types, if the Dynasty (or some of them) decided to lean into their Slasher-like abilities; also the Donner Party rescue was literally delayed by the Battle of Santa Clara during the Mexican-American War.
• Lewis was twice an immigrant ~ Germany to the US, and then the US into California (which was Mexican at the time), so Herodian seems a possibility, too.
• It is easy to paint Lewis as a Sycorian posterboy; however, that picture of him seems relentlessly wrong.
• I do confess that I find it hard to find ways to consider Hegemonic, Pantechnicon (something something brewery, necessity is the mother of invention something something? nah), Panopticon, Geryon, Horologion, Kyrian, Logothetes, or Peirasmon as options.

If this Dynasty is independent ~ whether or not they have feuded with the Brotherhood of the Barrel ~ I can maybe see them going mercenary? Like, selling their services to Nameless, Pentacle, and Seer mages alike. That would be kinda Mammon of them, tbh, and Mammon does serve the Chancellor who is associated with the Moros . . . .

Of course, I've been focusing on the Bay Area in their backstory cuz that's where my campaign is set. The man who vowed to kill Lewis lived here (became a wealthy man in San Jose, actually), but Lewis himself settled eventually in Sacramento (he did spend time in the Bay, both San Francisco and Calistoga). I'ven't fleshed out the magely society and history of Sacramento yet, beyond a population estimate and establishing that it's Diamond-dominated.