Tome of the Pentacle on DTRPG

[ArcaneArts]

Honestly, after reading the whole Empty Yoga section of the timeline, it basically screams "write a Mesopotamian based Dark Era". Honestly, the ancient Middle East seems to be overflowing with mysteries to explore, and the idea of Babylon ending up as a "crossover setting" makes it so interesting to explore. The only thing which lives a bit of a sour taste in my mouth is Marduk's presentation even though it is really cool, as I am a Hunter fan and Marduk is a consistent mythological symbol of the Vigil, yet making it into an actual embodiment of the Vigil and tying it to the Nibiru shouldn't be difficult considering its nature is left undefined (and the Exarchs are, after all, big fans of keeping humanity alive. I wrote way too much about this concept specifically myself)

It's a little southeast of the Mediterranean Bronze Age, but I was recently toying with an idea for a Mage/Promethean/Beast Harappan Migration setting*, and the Empty Yuga started itching that again.

*Wasteland/Lair Traits exacerbating climate change issues, pre-Vedic religion to explore as semiotics for the Supernal and for Lair, and the migration and pre-Vedic notions of Samsara as easy frame for the Pilgramage, Path/Awakening Allegories, and the overall Beast's Journey.

[Dave Brookshaw]

Marduk's weird status is from Dogs of War / Ruins of Ur, and not original to Tome. Same with Enhuenna being a Nosferatu.

[LostLight]

Marduk's weird status is from Dogs of War / Ruins of Ur, and not original to Tome. Same with Enhuenna being a Nosferatu.

I see! I got the vampire references, but I apparently missed Marduk in those books. Good to know.

[Isator Levi]

I really like the presentation of how mages are forced to try and infer some details from their earliest history more by reasoning things out from surrounding data than any hard physical evidence, re: the proposition that the human population during the bottleneck was too small for Awakened candidates to be likely.

I'd also wondered if the attempts to build a new Atlantis would make sense in the adjusted picture of Awakened history. The larger context of the Sundered Age does a good job of providing an alternative basis for such ideas, and an amusing kind of image where mages who have not yet built up as much of a sophisticated model of the cosmology and the nature of their own powers essentially start off building nuclear reactors before they've figured out wood fire, to disastrous results.

The introduction of the concept of lacunae and a spell to enact them is pleasing to me, insofar as it introduces effective complications to postcognition.

[wyrdhamster]

I really like the presentation of how mages are forced to try and infer some details from their earliest history more by reasoning things out from surrounding data than any hard physical evidence, re: the proposition that the human population during the bottleneck was too small for Awakened candidates to be likely.

For me, it's a bit problematic. Did not Time Arcanum existed before printing press? Time mages could literally pierce any place/time that is not Ruins of Time Before itself... 🤔

[TyrannicalRabbit]

An extra large Dark Era from the time when supernatural beings ruled some places openly and clashed would be pretty amazing.

[21C Hermit]

For me, it's a bit problematic. Did not Time Arcanum existed before printing press? Time mages could literally pierce any place/time that is not Ruins of Time Before itself... 🤔

They probably had trouble securing the necessary temporal connections to establish Temporal Sympathy.

[The Firebrand]

For me, it's a bit problematic. Did not Time Arcanum existed before printing press? Time mages could literally pierce any place/time that is not Ruins of Time Before itself... 🤔

The Sundering is stated as one of Earth's own lacunae and that nothing has temporal sympathy before 4960 BCE, which is far after the human bottleneck situation that happened between 50,000 and 100,000 years ago, so it makes sense that modern Awakened would have to make assumptions and guestimate. It's also mentioned that 'the Time Before' is something of an intentional misnomer to simplify discussion, as while Awakened are aware of its happening via ruins, it could be referring to the downfall of a potential future that no longer exists as much as it could be referring to a potential past that no longer happened.

[wyrdhamster]

The Sundering is stated as one of Earth's own lacunae and that nothing has temporal sympathy before 4960 BCE, which is far after the human bottleneck situation that happened between 50,000 and 100,000 years ago, so it makes sense that modern Awakened would have to make assumptions and guestimate.

Do not have Tome of Pentacle, so I do not know what this Lacunae in book. Also, what 'Bottleneck situation' book mention there? I write only as long MtAw fan, with 2E corebook at hand. 😉

They probably had trouble securing the necessary temporal connections to establish Temporal Sympathy.

Not a problem, just more dedication needed in pursuit of knowledge. Does not Strengthen Temporal Sympathy spell exists in like Time 2 on MtAw 2E? 🤔 Starting, most weakest Sympathy would simply by 'I heard this story about events four thousand years ago'. You made proper Temporal Sympathy ritual casting, going overboard with Potency - and BAM! - you can view Time events from prehistory, don't you? Or am I missing some Time mechanics?

I would imagine Orders creation events to be those most scrutinised events in Orders history...

[ArcaneArts]

Do not have Tome of Pentacle, so I do not know what this Lacunae in book. Also, what 'Bottleneck situation' book mention there? I write only as long MtAw fan, with 2E corebook at hand. 😉

Lacuna is basically a end point to temporal sympathy, where it's impossible to temporally scry/affect them past a particular point in someone/something's past/future. The world before the Sundering is blocked off because the Sunder is one such end point.

Semi-related, I gathered you don't have Tome yet, so, like, do you want it, or at you still figuring out if you do or not? If you want it but can't afford it, I can spot if you'd like.

[Michael]

Or am I missing some Time mechanics?

Sorry to say, I think you are. Temporal sympathy is between an object and itself in the past. Your story might have very weak sympathy to previous retellings, but not events described.

[Second Chances]

For me, it's a bit problematic. Did not Time Arcanum existed before printing press? Time mages could literally pierce any place/time that is not Ruins of Time Before itself... 🤔

I'll toss you a bone on this one Wyrd.

Temporal sympathy has its limits; beyond “vastly different”, no sympathy exists to grasp with magic. A mage cannot use a rubber object to view the life of the trees it was drawn from, or see an iron item before it was melted down and recast as something else. Mages call these uncrossable gaps in temporal sympathy “lacunae,” and the consideration of them is why most mages invested in viewing the remote past of a place travel to it in the present or employ Space magic rather than using items for sympathy.

Unfortunately, the Earth itself has a lacuna. In the far past, the material world and Shadow Realm had no Gauntlet between them, but instead a third liminal realm that intruded on both in quiet places. That world was destroyed in a cataclysm, becoming the Gauntlet and wrenching the world away from its Shadow. Magical historians don’t know how long the devastation took or exactly when it started, but nothing in the material world or Shadow Realm has temporal sympathy beyond 4960 BCE.

Also...

Also, what 'Bottleneck situation' book mention there? I write only as long MtAw fan, with 2E corebook at hand. 😉

The reference to a bottle neck here isn't a mage term, its a genertic bottleneck, when almost all of species dies out. In this case, when almost all of humanity got wiped out by a supervolcano eruption.

[lbeaumanior]

Marduk's weird status is from Dogs of War / Ruins of Ur, and not original to Tome. Same with Enhuenna being a Nosferatu.

Got my copy, and had to comment.

Love all the little references other gamelines, and SAS products (Abedju Cipher, Sin, the vampires that have anger magic forgot their names).]


This is the best CofD book I have read, and I am not even finished!

[Isator Levi]

In this case, when almost all of humanity got wiped out by a supervolcano eruption.

Just so long as we're clarifying on points of reality, the Toba catastrophe is technically still only a proposition, and one with its disputers; the volcano erupted, but it's not settled science whether it caused a long worldwide winter.

There's definitely a human genetic bottleneck, comprehensive analysis can demonstrate that everybody is descended from a remarkably small pool of relatively recent common ancestors, but the question as to why is not settled (and probably never can be).

Going for the Toba theory in Mage has the obvious merits of being suitably dramatic and getting to place a creepy sphere in the middle of the volcanic crater like this is Space Odyssey.

(Strictly speaking, a genetic bottleneck wouldn't have to arise from mass death; any event that isolates a population below a certain threshold of genetic variationcreates one. History is really full of minor genetic bottlenecks, whenever small populations of people migrate to sufficient remove from other people and repopulate from there, it's just they're less pronounced for having less time to spread, ultimately each remaining only a small portion of the human race, and often eventually coming back into contact with neighboring groups that introduce more genetic variety.)

[Michael]

I really like that the Seers are more integrated into Mage society. Like, they're still enemies, but they're still somewhat bound by the same traditions.