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  • #31
    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
    Well, since I'm aware of it, my commentary is that I'm actually pretty okay with deviation from default material-Mirrors and the Chronicler's Guides were my major re-entry points into Chronicles, and the spirit of breaking apart games and remaking them into something different is something that delights me to this day. I am a principle believer in fan games and fan products, even if I tend to find a lot of them lacking, because it's in the spirit of expansion and reinvention where the new and unexpected is bound to happen.
    Your behavior doesn't reflect that claim.

    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
    1) A lot of attempts I've seen over the year often don't have enough thought applied to them to really work out thoroughly, and the two main roots of that are often a) trying to give more weight to something superficial or craft level where the loadbearing weight is at a deeper level of the process*

    *For those unaware of what I'm talking about, I tend to rely a lot on Scott McCloud's Six Steps of Art for planning, constructing, and criticizing media, which understands any given bit of creation as one that starts with the (1)idea and the (2)form, develops an (3)idiom for constructing the overall (4)structure, then getting into the nitty gritty with the (5) craft of each part of the structure, and then applying polish to the (6) surface. People, however, tend to learn backwards, being drawn in by the superficial details and copying them, then learning how to really an individual part, then how to put indidivual parts into a good structure, then developing unique idioms, before directly engaging with their ideas and the form of the medium they work with. A good example of this in our neck of the wood is whenever someone wants to create a five by five splat metric without ever asking if the idea they're making needs to have an x and y splat, or if it even needs to be understood as a major template in the first place.
    Well, that's certainly a way of crafting art, but I wouldn't call that the way. There are many ways to skin a cat, after all.

    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
    b) trying to fix or change something without applying Chesterton's Fence** to whatever they're trying to fix/change in the first place, and so make something that often doesn't work like they intended it to, and often would bring up a host of issues along with it.

    **Chesterton's Fence is a principle that posits that before one should remove or change something, they must first understand why a thing was done in the first place, and how it did that thing. This is done in an effort to not only cut down on fixing something just to fix it, but to ensure that the fix is well and truly effective and possibly expansive in it's utility.
    That standard assumes that I have access to the original artists' intentions, which is absurdly unfair to hold me to. First off, I don't know said artists, nor their contact details. Even if I did, there's no reason I should expect to get any answers from them because I'm a complete stranger. They'd also get a lot of similar questions from several other people if their details were publicly accessible.

    Now, one could argue that I could research the topic to find out, but that its own double-edged sword. I would essentially have to make educated guesses about their intent, which could throw off my designs wildly off base, thus defeating the purpose.

    The best I can do is simply share my own designs with my own intent.

    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
    2) A lot of the attempts that I've commented on over the years are the one where the motive for making the homebrew was nothing more than not liking, even hating, the original material-and more importantly than that, the "homebrew" is less about making something new and more just an excuse to complain about the thing they don't like. This I have little to no tolerance for, I'll admit, because after Gecko and Camilla doing that (and a few others) for so long, I'm spent on negativity masquerading as projects, and honestly I just don't trust anything good coming out of that mindset. I've yet to be proven wrong.
    Ah yes, I've spent literal hours on making alternative designs to a frankly niche part of a game just because I hate it and the artist(s) who made it. Sure...

    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
    For this project, You very clearly have a good eye for signficant symbols, and are decently deft at color theming them, but you don't demonstrate ideas to unify them and make them work together, with little supporting them being in the same box of symbols beyond being popular iconography and having magical association.
    Making more negative compliments aren't going to increase my appreciation of them.

    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
    They don't do anything that the runes in Awakening do, and arguably they don't do anything beyond replacing runes to replace them, and to your own admission you made them because you don't like the runes in Awakening, with no other idea stated for what you were aiming to do with this.
    I find it awful rich that for someone who expects me to somehow understand the artists' intentions behind the original rune designs without having any means of contacting them and no right to expect answers from even if I did, you judge my material based on standards that I never intended to meet in the first place while having ample opportunity to ask what standards I actually tried to achieve.

    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
    I believe you could be a very adept creative if you were ever to really apply yourself to the work.
    Again, your behavior doesn't reflect that claim.

    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
    THis is gonna hit on a third thing that I take issue with. I understand people having problems and errors that they will run into, and I understand overcoming them is not something done overnight. But when people double down and cling to what they're doing, particularly when it's motivated by hatred, that's when I lose patience. A lot of these sort of people seem to think that if they just wait a bit and then put up the same thing, they won't run into the same problems, and tend to get upset when they are still asked to learn and grow. I can understand a problem and a mistake, but I detest a pattern of the stuff.
    Same thing? Now that's really insulting. Also, I don't just wait around a few years to repost something just because you "criticize" it. It's called procrastination, a fuck-ton of self-doubt and second-guessing, and an addiction to doomer media. Now I ain't sharing this to get pity or well-wishing, so you can spare that. All I'm pointing out is that I ain't waiting around to somehow avoid prolific forumites from commenting on my stuff. I knew what you were gonna say when I came in; I'm just not gonna take it lying down.

    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
    If you just want people to like and approve of your stuff, well, the geek is not going to inherit the earth. If you want to homebrew, if you want to be creative in public spheres, you're going to get criticism, and if you want to get that approval for your work, you're probably going to have to learn from that criticism at some point. If you don't want to deal with that, then don't be a creative in public. That's all there is to it.
    There's a massive difference between criticism and simply shitting on another's work and excusing it away as "criticism" to discourage self-defense.

    I don't just whip this stuff outta my ass and pretend it smells like an air freshener; I put solid work in to get good results. Before going online, I'll present my stuff to people offline who won't just gush on my work (to be honest, I wouldn't really trust them or even like it if they did; I'm awful at taking compliments). Hell, there was someone on Youtube who literally confused my earlier designs for the official stuff. I fucking cringe at those now, for crying out loud! I don't just wait around a few years to somehow avoid you; I improve. I've made work for my small business that an experienced consultant deemed as professional. I know my work is actually worth a damn 'cause if I didn't it'd never reach the internet.

    None of your bullying thinly-veiled as criticism is gonna change that.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by crapcarp View Post

      <Snip>

      None of your bullying thinly-veiled as criticism is gonna change that.
      Just a side note, i feel this thread was much more interesting before this current bit of criticism. You should not feel like you have to defend yourself in such a long reply.

      Getting back to the spirit of creativity and positivity that the thread started with, what is missing, (and what i'd love to see) Exarchs iron seals (in particular the Abyssal gate),

      various Seer ministries,

      Tremere houses,

      My favourite the Abyssal Scelesti (though here it would be appropriate to be stylistically different from high speech, using the unspeech of the Abyss) are there five ziggurats representing the inverse of the five paths?

      Any cool Annunkai that are listed? Or Gulmoth and Acomoth?

      The Bound! Although i think they may actually he supernal symbols, so wouldn't have a high speech representation, if that symbol has been removed from the supernal?

      Ps: critics should feel free to offer an alternative comparable work, instead of simply tearing down your good work.
      Last edited by orathaic; 05-28-2023, 05:14 AM. Reason: typos

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