History of Awakened - Mage Timeline

[wyrdhamster]

Thinking on 2E take from Dark Eras marks second cult to be filled with Persian and Indian mages, so I doubt it would started as from Aristotel School cult. But my knowledge of Kaprani related tradition is very low and I do not have who and where could start Pancrypties cult as extreme gnostics from those kingdoms.

I suppose that great influence would be Zoroastrianism, with it's duality on virtuous Ahura Mazda and chaotic Angra Mainyu. I believe that Pancrypties as Darshana cult would equal Angra Mainyu with Fallen World and that 'chaos' want to devour ‘Supernal’ world, and they need to get there, to Ahura Mazda, in flesh ( or so to speak ).

But when I read more on this religion on Wikipedia, I come to realization there are very interesting threads that can be used for Pancrypties background. Here are some excerpts from article:

The roots of Zoroastrianism are thought to have emerged from a common prehistoric Indo-Iranian religious system dating back to the early 2nd millennium BCE.[34] The prophet Zoroaster himself, though traditionally dated to the 6th century BC, is thought by many modern historians to have been a reformer of the polytheistic Iranian religion who lived in the 10th century BC.[35] Zoroastrianism as a religion was not firmly established until several centuries later. Zoroastrianism enters recorded history in the mid-5th century BCE. Herodotus' The Histories (completed c. 440 BCE) includes a description of Greater Iranian society with what may be recognizably Zoroastrian features, including exposure of the dead.

The Histories is a primary source of information on the early period of the Achaemenid era(648–330 BCE), in particular with respect to the role of the Magi. According to Herodotus i.101, the Magi were the sixth tribe of the Medians (until the unification of the Persian empire under Cyrus the Great, all Iranians were referred to as "Mede" or "Mada" by the peoples of the Ancient World), who appear to have been the priestly caste of the Mesopotamian-influenced branch of Zoroastrianism today known as Zurvanism, and who wielded considerable influence at the courts of the Median emperors.

Following the unification of the Median and Persian empires in 550 BCE, Cyrus the Great and, later, his son Cambyses II curtailed the powers of the Magi after they had attempted to sow dissent following their loss of influence. In 522 BCE, the Magi revolted and set up a rival claimant to the throne. The usurper, pretending to be Cyrus' younger son Smerdis, took power shortly thereafter.[37] Owing to the despotic rule of Cambyses and his long absence in Egypt, "the whole people, Persians, Medes and all the other nations" acknowledged the usurper, especially as he granted a remission of taxes for three years (Herodotus iii. 68).

Maybe a Panscryptia cult could start at Magi revolt in 522 BCE, when mages understood they must defend their lore and secrets from Sleepers influences? Or when in 550 the sow dissent in society - it seams as thing Pancryptias forefathers would do. It also would give nice headway of 2 centuries for the Order from Keepers in spreading in Hellenistic world.

Linked map in article also made very possible to Panscrypties joining with similar cults in India, as Persian Empire was so close to it.

According to later Zoroastrian legend (Denkard and the Book of Arda Viraf), many sacred texts were lost when Alexander the Great's troops invaded Persepolis and subsequently destroyed the royal library there. Diodorus Siculus's Bibliotheca historica, which was completed circa 60 BCE, appears to substantiate this Zoroastrian legend (Diod. 17.72.2–17.72.6). According to one archaeological examination, the ruins of the palace of Xerxes bear traces of having been burned (Stolze, 1882). Whether a vast collection of (semi-)religious texts "written on parchment in gold ink", as suggested by the Denkard, actually existed remains a matter of speculation, but is unlikely. Given that many of the Denkards statements-as-fact have since been refuted among scholars, the tale of the library is widely accepted to be fictional (Kellens, 2002).

This event would also mark start of nice Pancrypties and Keepers of Word feud, if first where related to Zoroastrianism cults and second would Alexanders successors from Library of Alexandria. Keepers could replay that was their fathers doing, not their, but for Pancrypties it would only point their foolishness in believing that Sleepers will not turn against them.

[Michael]

Thinking on 2E take from Dark Eras marks second cult to be filled with Persian and Indian mages, so I doubt it would started as from Aristotel School cult.

Also, more basically it doesn't make sense. Aristotle's ideas aren't terribly suggestive of the thought of the Pancryptiates.

Maybe a Panscryptia cult could start at Magi revolt in 522 BCE, when mages understood they must defend their lore and secrets from Sleepers influences?

More likely their beliefs would have root in the actions of Zoroaster himself. The Karpani at least claim to predate Zoroastrianism and Zoroaster apparently condemned them...

He spoke against the Karpani, accusing them of chanting to flatter and pry wealth from their patrons.

The Karpani have good reason to think that sleepers actively harm them.

[wyrdhamster]

I got idea of probably cool fan event related to new Pancryptiates definition. What do you think about it?

12^th – 14^th century AD: Catharism movement active in Southern Europe. Religion is rumored to be started by remnants of Pancryptiates rebelling against merging with Keepers of Word into Mysterium Order. Harsh answer of Catholic Church is said to hail from Seers of Throne cults of Father controlling Vatican. ( Fan )

More likely their beliefs would have root in the actions of Zoroaster himself. The Karpani at least claim to predate Zoroastrianism and Zoroaster apparently condemned them...

The Karpani have good reason to think that sleepers actively harm them.

It would be good idea on Zoroaster condemnation of Karpani so they reject Sleepers - but there is problem of date. In nutshell, we do not know when Zoroaster lived:

There is no consensus on the dating of Zoroaster, the Avesta gives no direct information about it, while historical sources are conflicting. Some scholars base the date reconstruction on the Proto-Indo-Iranian language and Proto-Indo-Iranian religion and thus it is considered some place in the north-east and time between 1500 and 500 BCE.

I would rather point to direct, historical event, just to not open can of worms on 'Panscryptias were created in somewhere in span of one thousand years'. Also, going as far as 1000 years before rest of Diamond in creation of cult seems a bit too much streach. If Pancryptias would be from 1500 BCE and active till 300 BCE, their cult would surely dominated whole civilized world. Three hundred years before rest of future Diamond is fine - twelve hundred seems unconvincingly on more even footing in Hellenistic World between later Diamond.

So, for the origins of Panscryptias Order, maybe stick on Magi revolt of 522 BCE, that philosophically based it on the Zoroasters condemnation of their caste in Gathas?

[Michael]

12^th – 14^th century AD: Catharism movement active in Southern Europe. Religion is rumored to be started by remnants of Pancryptiates rebelling against merging with Keepers of Word into Mysterium Order. Harsh answer of Catholic Church is said to hail from Seers of Throne cults of Father controlling Vatican. ( Fan )

Personally I'd rip off the RPG Nephilim which does something very similar. In that, one of the organisations decides to heavily concentrate itself in Languedoc and much like the Pancryptiates, they don't actually care about the mortals around them but the mortals still venerate them and try to emulate them through Catharism.

If Pancryptias would be from 1500 BCE and active till 300 BCE, their cult would surely dominated whole civilized world. Three hundred years before rest of future Diamond is fine - twelve hundred seems unconvincingly on more even footing in Hellenistic World between later Diamond.

Ah, I see what you're trying to do. Personally, I'd leave the foundation of the Pancrytiate till after To The Strongest; it's pretty clearly something that hasn't happened yet. I was more pointing out that the beliefs that will found the Order are already in place.

So, for the origins of Panscryptias Order, maybe stick on Magi revolt of 522 BCE,

The other difficulty with that is that the Karpani aren't Magi. They specficially use Zoroastrian language and concepts but aren't actually Zoroastrians as such. You'd think they'd be more likely to join in to give the Magi a good kicking.

[wyrdhamster]

By The Esoteric Codex: Zoroastrianism we have great reason to Panscryptias to emerge in 521 BCE:

‘Magi, usurped the throne for one of their own, Gaumata (…) According to Behistun Inscription, Gaumata ruled for seven months before being overthrown in 522 BCE by Darius the Great (…) The Magi, though persecuted, continued to existed, and a year following the death of first pseudo-Smerdis ( Gaumata ), saw a second pseudo-Smerdis attempt coup. The coup, thought initially successful, failed.’

It’s from this event mass persecution of Magi started in Persia, so I think it would be good starting point for Panscryptias to emerge. Basing their dogma on version of Zoroastrianism but also rejecting Zoroaster condemnation of Karpani, they pointed Sleepers as root of world’s problems, wanting to transgress to what later be called Supernal Realms.

Personally I'd rip off the RPG Nephilim which does something very similar. In that, one of the organisations decides to heavily concentrate itself in Languedoc and much like the Pancryptiates, they don't actually care about the mortals around them but the mortals still venerate them and try to emulate them through Catharism.

Interesting, will check my Nephilim copy on this one.

Ah, I see what you're trying to do. Personally, I'd leave the foundation of the Pancrytiate till after To The Strongest; it's pretty clearly something that hasn't happened yet. I was more pointing out that the beliefs that will found the Order are already in place.

If they would be after To the Strongest, we would need some highly important event on Persian-Indian line after Alexanders conquest to spread the Order on East. If we make it start on circa 500 BCE, it can spread with Alexanders armies or even just by being in neighbor empire - three hundred years is enough for this kind of 'philosophical Osmosis' to start.

The other difficulty with that is that the Karpani aren't Magi. They specficially use Zoroastrian language and concepts but aren't actually Zoroastrians as such. You'd think they'd be more likely to join in to give the Magi a good kicking.

I don't know, by the To the Strongest they seems to imply they work as connected to one another.

Outsiders call Karpani Magi, but a “magus” is a Zoroastrian priest who guides lives toward Ahura Mazda. Karpani belong to an older tradition of poets and singers who could brighten or defile with magical speech. Until Alexander took the Persian Empire, the Karpani were content to act quietly, but when his soldiers scattered the priestly magi, the Karpani were forced to take their place.

Last sentence seems to imply that Karpani, even than not Magi cast of Persian society, are connected to them. I think that Pancryptiates, working as other group than Great Cult of Karpani, but stealing some of their dogma, could start there. Or even working as fringe Karpani Gnostikon Darshana cult mixing Karpani with Zoroastrians dogma with declining sway of mainstream Karpani, become more and more prominent. When Alexander armies is scattering priestly magi, Pancryptiates are running to the East, to India, where they join similar ascetics groups there, creating semi-global Order - my proposal is. Legendary burning of Persopolis library would be greatest symbol on this change, propagating even more fear of Sleepers.

[wyrdhamster]

Proposed timeline parts for Mysterium and it's related Keepers of Word and Pancryptiates Orders.

522 BCE: Magi ( as priest caste ) rebellion in Persian Empire under Achaemenid Dynasty. Bloody suppression of revolt by Darius I "the Great" and killing of Gaumata - Magi usurper to throne - started persecution of cast in country. Year later next attempt of coup only forced trend. Few shunted Awakened Zoroastrian priests mix with previous group of Kaprani poets and cantors. New created Gnostikon Darshana cult believed Sleepers actively damaged the world by existing – like Zoroaster tried to divide mages with condemning Kaprani in his followers or like Darius ‘betrayed’ Magi caste. They sought to either remove themselves from the world and society or build bulwarks where the Abyss had less sway. They built demesnes, summoned supernal entities, studied the Abyss, explored Emanations and sought a way *out* of what latter be called Fallen World. By later, they would be called Panscryptias, based on Greek translation of their main idea that magic will hidden from Sleepers – Panscryptia. They believe magi should use what they find to defeat ignorance and malefic sorcery. This Karpani-dominated group believes it incautious to harness Artifacts, texts, and wondrous places immediately, and concentrates on archiving, guarding, and carefully studying them. ( Fan, based on Mage 2E and To The Strongest - Dark Eras )

522 – 336 BCE: Called by later as Panscryptias, Persian cult live on outskirts of Sleepers and Awakened societies, as shunted by both groups for mingling Kaprani with Zoroastrian traditions. However, with each passing decade of Greek-Persian Wars, cult get more and more listeners and converts. It’s also start to develop what will be called Egregore by their descendants. Till Alexander The Great time it’s still relative small group in Awakened circles, but spread all over Persian Empire. When Hellens armies are attacking country, Panscryptias paints Alexander as incarnation of Saurva (oppres*sion), Wordly Power that serves Angra Mainyu (spiritual corruption ) and figure of Abzu ( Abyss ). This rhetoric is giving them rising sway in local occult circles. ( Fan, based on Mage 2E and To The Strongest - Dark Eras )

334 BCE: Aristotle founds Peripatetic school in the Lyceum of Athens. Some of his students are Awakened. They make a cult dedicated to uncovering the Mysteries of the world. Sorcerers under it are starting to using term ‘Atlantis’ for probable ideal society from Time Before they want to reflect. ( To The Strongest - Dark Eras )

330 BCE: By the start of year, Alexander army had besieged Persopolis. Legend says that his men burned royal library in that time. Panscryptias cultists pointed this as greatest proof that Sleepers destroy knowledge and magic. This event will be main point of conflict between Greeks based Keepers of Word and Persian originating Panscryptias for next centuries. Groups member need to save themselves before the Alexanders butchering of clergy and destroying of temples. Many of them run to India and mix with similar groups in Mantra Sadhaki and a like traditions, all afraid of Alexander’s influences on their homeland society. It’s a start of Panscryptias as small, but truly global Order. ( Fan, based on Mage 2E and To The Strongest - Dark Eras )

323 BCE: Aristotle must run with his family from Athens, because his critique of government. His Awakened students spread on Mediterranean Sea area. ‘Atlantis’ term on Ruins from Time Before start to circle en masse in occult groups on West. ( Fan, based on To The Strongest - Dark Eras )

297- 283 BCE: Demetrius of Phalerum, Athenian orator, student of Theophrastus and Aristotel, is banished from his homeland after ten years of governing Athens and living Thebes behind him, comes to the court of Alexandria. Under the rule of Ptolemy I Soter he creates Library of Alexandria. Even if he probably were not the sorcerer, his students and colleges were - and they all created Gnostikon Darshana cult of preserving and trading all knowledge. Even after the exile of Demetrius by the Ptolemy II, cult inside the Library thrive. This group would call itself Keepers of the Word and created first known Atheneum in Great Library of Alexandria. In years to come, Keepers would spread on all former Alexandrian Empire, by the trade of books it copied and preserved. ( Fan, based on Mysterium )

241 BCE: On the final return to the Italy, first European Caucus of Adamantine Arrow has gathered, from the veterans of this long lasting war. In the shadows of Rome, Arrows sworn to defend the Republic, both Sleepers and Awakened. Keepers of the Word and Panscryptiates already took first steps in the city, from trade with Hellenistic Kingdoms. ( Fan )

48 BCE: Caesar burning and saking Alexandria. Great Library is largely damaged. Many of precious Artifacts in it’s Atheneum is stolen. Keepers of Word and Panscryptiates are accusing Arrows of this “barbarianism”, even if they know that Caesar was not Order’s member. ( Fan )

12th century AD: Pancryptiates and Keepers of the World Orders merged into one Mysterium in Byzantine Empire under Corpus Author that made hers Ascension from this event. Fall of Empire and Silk Road to Asia propagated unified Order. ( Mage 2E and Mysterium )

12^th – 14^th century AD: Catharism movement active in Southern Europe. Religion is rumored to be started by remnants of Pancryptiates rebelling against merging with Keepers of Word into Mysterium Order. Harsh answer of Catholic Church is said to hail from Seers of Throne cults of Father controlling Vatican. ( Fan )

[Michael]

It’s from this event mass persecution of Magi started in Persia, so I think it would be good starting point for Panscryptias to emerge. Basing their dogma on version of Zoroastrianism but also rejecting Zoroaster condemnation of Karpani, they pointed Sleepers as root of world’s problems, wanting to transgress to what later be called Supernal Realms.

That doesn't make much sense to me. I mean, the 'persecution' of the Magi is not terribly clear historically and it looks like the Magi might have been some kind of tribal group rather than the Zoroastrian priesthood as such. Darius was himself still a Zoroastrian by most accounts; presumably he still had some priests left over.

Further, I just don't see why a group of Awakened would care so much about this one particular incident of violence in a world full of violence. I mean, if you want one event to create the Pancryptiates it needs to be a big deal. However, it's not like the magi in Herodotus' story were unfairly attacked. They tried overthrowing Darius twice.

Interesting, will check my Nephilim copy on this one.

It's the Hermit Arcana. I just assume that most people haven't read Nephilim.

If they would be after To the Strongest, we would need some highly important event on Persian-Indian line after Alexanders conquest to spread the Order on East. If we make it start on circa 500 BCE, it can spread with Alexanders armies or even just by being in neighbor empire - three hundred years is enough for this kind of 'philosophical Osmosis' to start.

Yeah, but the ideas are already there, they just haven't created a coherent order yet. The Future Fates section even makes a point that the Mantrikis tend to join the Pancrytiates because the Keepers are associated with the Greeks.

Last sentence seems to imply that Karpani, even than not Magi cast of Persian society, are connected to them.

It's because they're Persians. They see what the Magi represented and did in Persian society and some feel that they should be filling in that role.

[wyrdhamster]

That doesn't make much sense to me. I mean, the 'persecution' of the Magi is not terribly clear historically and it looks like the Magi might have been some kind of tribal group rather than the Zoroastrian priesthood as such. Darius was himself still a Zoroastrian by most accounts; presumably he still had some priests left over.

If they would ethnic minority, it still works. It's the shock that is needed here, no matter whether on caste or tribe.

Further, I just don't see why a group of Awakened would care so much about this one particular incident of violence in a world full of violence. I mean, if you want one event to create the Pancryptiates it needs to be a big deal. However, it's not like the magi in Herodotus' story were unfairly attacked. They tried overthrowing Darius twice.

Yeah, it should be something big, but also occult related ( more chances to then attack Awakened ) - I do not know history of ancient Persia enough, beside that this was biggest empire and Absolute Monarchy in reality. ( Almost ) Each Persian ruler made some things terrible to it's people. Event on Magi sounded to me as much Awakened related as you can be from general points of countries history I heard, as sorcerers naturally works in priests roles.

Yeah, but the ideas are already there, they just haven't created a coherent order yet. The Future Fates section even makes a point that the Mantrikis tend to join the Pancrytiates because the Keepers are associated with the Greeks.

Great, but you need the cult in first to exists. We have acknoleged in Dark Eras and DaveB's calryfication that Panscryptiates were:

1. They fear Sleepers - here for start would work event that made Awakened affraid of Sleepers. Magi rebellion sound to me as one best with at least century before Alexander to let small cult spread itself in Persia, but if you got better proposition - I listen.

2. Mostly Persian cult, that Indian joined later - I think that 'seeding' them when Persian Awakened are running from Alexander works best here, as both countries were really affraid of him and his conquests.

It's because they're Persians. They see what the Magi represented and did in Persian society and some feel that they should be filling in that role.

That's Karpani. Karpani Great Cult are filling role. For Panscryptias to work as global Order, they should be different than normal Great Cult line, to evolve from them into something greater, something beyond 'we are only Gnostiokon Karpani'. Keepers of the Word are not Greek, not Egyptian, but Hellenistic lore trader, spreading from Alexandria all over the world, taking advantages of Hellenistic World. Admanatine Arrow ( in my version ) started as Roman Legion cult that joined to his army next conquered provinces, expanding beyond simple Roman cult.

Key to creation of Global Order is idea that transcendence original national Great Cult and that others groups can ascribe to. THEN events that will make new Order spread over the world.

Events to spread maybe we have - Persian running from Alexander - we need events to create cult that will be beyond simple 'next Karpani cult'. I was thinking that 'misalliance' of Zoroastrian Magi and Karpani poets let them to make this, this going beyond only one nation group.

[wyrdhamster]

I edited first post with new events ideas, covering differences between Panscryptias and Keepers of the Word or ancient tries to recreate Time Before civilizations.

[wyrdhamster]

Oh...the 6th could actually be the Tremere. The Diamond had no clue what their actual nature was for a long time.

t

We have a winner.

So Tremere were official Order and part of Diamond, he? Now the question is when they were declared Left Hand on masse. As Left Hand Path mentioned that in the Middle Ages they were still hunting other Reaper Legacies, so their Abyss worshiping still would be secret, I suppose. So what, start of Renaissance as Tremere become official recognized as enemies of Diamond?

[Gullinbursti]

Also, don't think this was mentioned above but I was rereading to the strongest and the Nagaraja legacy has a few tidbits in the future fate boxout.

Prior to 50BC the Tremere were wandering Europe and still maintained full use of High Speech both verbally and in written form.

50BC the Tremere are drawn to Egypt by rumours of Vampires. There they are enslaved by an Ancient Vampire which begins sending them to gather occult knowledge/materials. While doing this they discover a Bound which teaches them how to become Reapers (a Strix mayhaps?).

By 2nd C.E. they have absorbed the Nagaraja into the Tremere as one of their "houses".

[wyrdhamster]

This 50 BCE date is from some sourcebook or your fan estimation?

[Gullinbursti]

The Nagaraja Legacy has a box out in To the Strongest.

By 50 BC, rumors of vampires draw them to
Egypt, where an ancient vampire enslaves them
and sends them in search of occult resources.

The only fan speculation was the Bound in question possibly being a Strix.

[wyrdhamster]

Tremere timeline
Here are events from history of Awakened connected to Tremere I want to add to main timeline. I also rewritten creation of Silver Ladder, as they need to got some parts of Mantra Sadhaki philosophy and start their ‘Dragon Symbology’ that Diamond later use. If no one will comment this part of timeline, I will add them to rest in time of one week.

Circa 300 BCE: Tremere are small cult ( later Nameless Order ) that wander Europe beyond the Alexander Empire, keeping to themselves unless they need supplies or to replenish their numbers. They study the Subtle Arcana in search of the secrets of the soul, but they aren’t Reapers — not yet. They keep customs they believe date from before the Fall, and are most notable in this period for possessing a full command of High Speech. They can speak and write about any subject in that language or at least rumors says so. ( To The Strongest - Dark Eras, Nagaraja Legacy write-up )

241-218 BCE: Seeing how effective and dangerous newly created Adamantine Arrow Order has become, the local Omphalos Darshana’s cults - worshipping Great Ladder of hierarchy - started to be afraid on their position. For years they infiltrated Roman Senate and elite - so they know vampires had secret nation under the proper Rome. It took almost a decade of debate on what to do with this situation. And then they find out that Phulakeion Darshana - the Guardians called New Constructionist - had infiltrate the Rome and it’s heart - Sanate – also steering it in to souls prison they though it should be. Finally, Omphalos cult leaders see past their difference and organized a meeting on which they understand they need a strong opposition to both Guardians and Arrows threat. Going after popular Atlantis tale in occult circles, they used Silver Ladder to Heavens as their symbol. From Mantra Sadhaki they taken idea of Supernal Beings – Dragons – that teach humanity their true capabilities and role in greater hierarchy of cosmos. First European Silver Ladder Caucus have gathered. After the Kindred they wanted they own, secret nation - but not under the Rome, but inside it. First European Cryptopoly have started. Both Atlantis and Dragon become symbol of Silver Ladder unifying Orders under their Diamond dogma and leading them to recreate utopia in Rome – even when opposed by both Guardians and vampires in it. ( Guardains of Veil and Fan )

50 BCE: Rumors of vampires draw Tremere to Egypt, where an ancient vampire enslaves them and sends them in search of occult resources. During one such journey they encounter the Bound that initiates them into the contemporary Legacy. One of theories says this being is or is related to Strix.
From there on Tremere consume and destroy other Reapers – in secret, for now. ( To The Strongest - Dark Eras, Nagaraja Legacy write-up )

2nd century AD: Tremere claim the Nagaraja Indian Legacy first and absorb them as a “House” within the greater Legacy. They still not meet society of Diamond at large. ( To The Strongest - Dark Eras, Nagaraja Legacy write-up )

8th century AD: In Eastern Europe, one or two Tremere demanded hospitality at Diamond wizards’ towers. Quickly follow them whole cabals, showing carcasses of monsters they fought to assure good intentions. Tremere were warrior-sorcerers and students of the soul who promised to lead the Awakened to a new age of splendor, built on the ashes of burning enemies. They hunted Seers and Scelesti, but selected Reapers and vampires for the balance of their wrath. They preached that Atlantis’s faithful willworkers were the natural lords of souls. Anyone who challenged their crowns deserved to burn. Tremere were even more fixated on Dragons Symbology of Diamond Orders, quickly proclaiming themselves as Blood of Dragon ( Left-Hand Path with Fan part on Dragon's Blood )

1099: Silver Ladder lictor Caterine Bedlam told the Convocation of Antioch what many now suspected: the Tremere was a Legacy of Reapers who hunted their own kind. It labeled them as Nefandi by Convocation, with banishment and ‘forgetting’ of Tremere Order members – their magical tools were destroyed, as any grimoires, soul stones, or imbued items they created. Their Shadow Name becomes illegal to utter and were replaced in all Consilium records by “Nefandi:” the name that is not a name and cannot be spoken. As other Convocations followed that of Antioch, within few years Tremere were officially excommunicated from Diamond, becoming target for Reaper hunters they ones been.( Left-Hand Path)

[Cleverest of Things]

I can't remember if the Tremere were in canon connected to the Theban that taught blood sorcery to the proto-sanctified, or if that was just my headcanon. I'm pretty sure it was contradicted later on, unfortunately. I have to add another thank you, this timeline is very handy. even with the less clear topics, it gave me knowledge of when events roughly happened (I didn't know the seer book gave solid dates for the atlantises). so handy.