History of Awakened - Mage Timeline

[wyrdhamster]

Added Tremere info from Left Hand Path and Dark Eras and information from Dark Eras Companion.

[WHW]

Looking at this time line makes me sad, because it really looks like "Mage Timeline" is basically "timeline of latin civilization" ignoring rest of the world all together. :/

[Mrmdubois]

Looking at this time line makes me sad, because it really looks like "Mage Timeline" is basically "timeline of latin civilization" ignoring rest of the world all together. :/

That's just been Wyrd's interpretation of it. I know it's been mentioned before that he keeps overlooking how much India and other Eastern countries influenced the development of the Orders.

[wyrdhamster]

That's just been Wyrd's interpretation of it. I know it's been mentioned before that he keeps overlooking how much India and other Eastern countries influenced the development of the Orders.

They are mentioned - East mages started Darshanas exchange in Alexander Empire and I even pointed that Panscryptias were result of Persian-Indian exchange or Dragon idea is from Eastern philosophies. It's not my fault that canonical informations in sourcebooks point only to European events in Orders creation times.

[Mrmdubois]

They are mentioned - East mages started Darshanas exchange in Alexander Empire and I even pointed that Panscryptias were result of Persian-Indian exchange or Dragon idea is from Eastern philosophies. It's not my fault that canonical informations in sourcebooks point only to European events in Orders creation times.

Yes, you mention them, but the level of influence they had is understated by you. I wouldn't worry about it, since it's basically impossible for a historian to be fair to everyone involved in history. I was just pointing out to WHW that they should take the timeline here with a small grain of salt like you should with most history books.

[Michael]

Looking at this time line makes me sad, because it really looks like "Mage Timeline" is basically "timeline of latin civilization" ignoring rest of the world all together. :/

If I remember right, the Guardians of the Veil book basically admitted that. It has a long section on how important Rome was to the Guardians, but then admits that Chinese Guardians tend to think that's rubbish.

I think the underlying issue might be that to do any kind of history justice you really need more information about what the Orders are like in non-European regions, and history sections rarely have the room for that.

[Second Chances]

If I remember right, the Guardians of the Veil book basically admitted that. It has a long section on how important Rome was to the Guardians, but then admits that Chinese Guardians tend to think that's rubbish.

I think the underlying issue might be that to do any kind of history justice you really need more information about what the Orders are like in non-European regions, and history sections rarely have the room for that.

And that right there is why I'm less interested in seeing extra Rome Eras in Dark Eras 2. Show me the rest of the world!

[Zooroos]

One of the many pitfalls of historical descriptions is the temptation of considering (or presenting) any single analytical category as exhaustive and homogeneous. Like writing about "the Romans" and assuming they all shared the same characteristics regardless of individuals, factions, geography or particular times. Or considering that the Guardians of the Veil saw themselves then as we see them now, or that they knew exactly what they were doing when they decided such and such plan.

The historical perspective of someone who reads about the formation of a faction, kingdom or religion is fundamentally different from the historical witness of such events. We have the luxury of both perspective and distance, and we can easily see the emerging pattern of different groups and ideas coalescing into a concrete thing, but any one actor at the time probably didn't see that the group X would one day merge with his own group Y to form the present-day faction Z.

[wyrdhamster]

As we finally have this era in Dark Eras 2 then - let's read it...
In Light of the Sun Era we have...

1517 till 18th century AD: The Seers of the Throne are unifying from various Nameless Orders. Up until the mid-15th century, the Seers of the Throne were not a unified sect, but a tenuous and shifting alliance of small Orders. The early years of the Italian Renaissance and the birth of city-states like Milan and Venice gave rise to the nationalistic Hegemony, who worship the Unity, Iron Seal of Mind and Exarch of control through xenophobia. As the first Ministry, they organized the other proto-Seer cults into similar Ministries, forming a bloc that could more meaningfully oppose the Diamond and enact the Exarchs’ will. This included Paternoster — cult of the Father, Iron Seal of Prime and Exarch of control through dogma — though it was a hard sell. Paternoster has been the largest and most cohesive Exarchal Nameless Order since the 13th century and would have stayed independent if the other cults hadn’t fallen in line with Hegemony’s plan. The alliance now is fractious: The Hegemony
supports a Christian Reformation that will fracture Christendom into rival factions, while Paternoster supports the Counter-Reformation to keep papal power consolidated, acutely aware that the Reformation is giving the nobility unprecedented sway over the Church. To the Father’s devout, this assault on their authority is unacceptable. ( Light of the Sun – Dark Eras 2)

[Omegaphallic]

If I remember right, the Guardians of the Veil book basically admitted that. It has a long section on how important Rome was to the Guardians, but then admits that Chinese Guardians tend to think that's rubbish.

I think the underlying issue might be that to do any kind of history justice you really need more information about what the Orders are like in non-European regions, and history sections rarely have the room for that.

Why would Chinese Guardian concider that Rubbish? Do you honestly think the Chinese concider Rome historically unimportant? The ramifications of Roman history have global implications, that takes nothing away from the historical value of China.

[Guest]

Rome and China traded on the Silk Road.

[nofather]

Because while the Western Guardians believe their concepts formed in Rome those in China believe they've formed in the East.

P33, 'Eastern Guardians claim to have avoided the great mistakes of their Western counterparts. Eastern Guardians insist that their culture never created the drive for a New Atlantis and they don’t have a “travesty” like Rome in their history. Chinese Guardians also contend with the common assertion that the Labyrinth originated in the West. They claim to have been bending sects of Taoism and Confucianism to the Guardians’ purposes of concealing truth since before word of the Guardian-infl uenced mystery cults could have ever reached China. Western Guardians write this off as a conceit, but it is a point of pride among some of their Asian counterparts.'