Addicted to Mystery: What do you want to see in the Fallen World Chronicles?

[Dataweaver]

wyrdhamster: yes, the tendency to shy away from the supernatural is part of the Lie. I was taking exception only to your suggestion that people forget most supernatural encounters, when that part of it is very much particular to encounters with the Supernal (and other special cases such as Werewolf’s Lunacy). Note also that most hunters are Sleepers: whatever effect the Lie has, it’s not so strong as to prevent people from taking up the Vigil.

AngryCucaracha: the Free Council holds that humanity is magical, and some of them hold that the Supernal (and the Abyss?) derive from the Phenomenal World. From that perspective, it’s entirely logical to say that the Lie derives from human nature.

[Leetsepeak]

Do Mages Virtues/Vices change at all from mortals versions?

[wyrdhamster]

wyrdhamster: yes, the tendency to shy away from the supernatural is part of the Lie. I was taking exception only to your suggestion that people forget most supernatural encounters, when that part of it is very much particular to encounters with the Supernal (and other special cases such as Werewolf’s Lunacy). Note also that most hunters are Sleepers: whatever effect the Lie has, it’s not so strong as to prevent people from taking up the Vigil.

I think it's more compeling to "look the other way" or rationalize, at least most of times. If supernatural encounter is enough brutal ( remember that most Vigils are taken after things like Winchester Brothers backstory from Supernatural ), Lie effect is broken and even Sleepers can't omit it. That's how I see Hunters are made.

[Isator Levi]

Mage Virtues and Vices will apparently be the same as mortal ones, to emphasize their humanity.

[Dave Brookshaw]

Mage Virtues and Vices will apparently be the same as mortal ones, to emphasize their humanity.

This. Also wordcount.

[Dataweaver]

I think it's more compeling to "look the other way" or rationalize, at least most of times. If supernatural encounter is enough brutal ( remember that most Vigils are taken after things like Winchester Brothers backstory from Supernatural ), Lie effect is broken and even Sleepers can't omit it. That's how I see Hunters are made.

It’s worth noting that you can break free of that part of the Lie without becoming a Sleepwalker, and becoming a Sleepwalker doesn’t free you from that part of the Lie. In practice, it’s as if they were two separate things…

[reseru]

This. Also wordcount.

I'd like to see how their in-humanity gets emphasized, but I suppose that comes through All Their Other Mechanics, like nimbus and such.

Also, here's a good question: the Supernal is taking a renewed meaning as a realm of symbols and concepts, so how will the nMage 2.0 Tenemos be affected by that conceptual change? The Tenemos is the Astral realm of concepts, particularly human concepts but still. Is there something that makes them more of a stark contrast now?

[Dave Brookshaw]

Yeah - Mages have different Aspiration and Integrity traits to Sleepers, and like other supernatural beings they have a power trait, a fuel trait, and an aura mechanic.

Virtue and Vice are the only thing in the central traits that isn't tweaked, but it's important to me to keep at least one.

[Isator Levi]

The Tenemos is the Astral realm of concepts, particularly human concepts but still.

I think even the Temenos as currently written is more about specific motifs of culture and ideals rather than generic or mystical symbolism. It's the collective of everything people think or want or believe.

Look at the Temenos Mars, a bizarre mishmash of war symbolism and fictional portrayals.

[BigDamnHero]

Yeah - Mages have different Aspiration and Integrity traits to Sleepers, and like other supernatural beings they have a power trait, a fuel trait, and an aura mechanic.

Virtue and Vice are the only thing in the central traits that isn't tweaked, but it's important to me to keep at least one.

So Wisdom instead of Integrity but they're keeping Virtue and Vice? So it's like NWoD 1.0 in that regard?

[reseru]

Virtue and Vice are the only thing in the central traits that isn't tweaked, but it's important to me to keep at least one.

Fair enough, and I think I agree. It's nice to have something to ground them to their humanity. Kindred might fear losing it and the Created might hope to gain it, but the Awakened are the ones that have to live with all these changes but still look in the mirror and, with horror, realize, "Oh shit, despite all these other things I am human"

[Dataweaver]

Well, hunters too. But yeah.

[Kazorh]

Look at the Temenos Mars, a bizarre mishmash of war symbolism and fictional portrayals.

Well, I'm pretty sure Supernal Mars would have a warlike aspect. The planets have mystical symbolism, after all, which can be used during rituals and such.

I'm pretty sure calling on Mars won't help for extraterrestrial-themed spells, though.

(Or maybe it would. Sounds like a job for the Free Council!) (I'm actually getting this idea of a FC researcher who specializes in studying Supernal symbols and trying to determine if - and how - they've been influenced by humanity. Prove Free Council ideology! Humanity is magical! Diamond scholars, of course, would dismiss anything he came up with: humanity has simply been influenced recently by a previously unknown aspect of the Supernal.)

[ckobbe]

I think even the Temenos as currently written is more about specific motifs of culture and ideals rather than generic or mystical symbolism. It's the collective of everything people think or want or believe.

Look at the Temenos Mars, a bizarre mishmash of war symbolism and fictional portrayals.

I have just begun to reread Astral Realms, but with the new FW clarifying Supernal Cosmology, I am kind of thinking of Astral Space as humanities mental equivalent to a Cargo Cult. Supernal Symbolism would exist there (the equivalent of native cultures) but distorted/filtered by all the human concepts and misconceptions (the foreign cultural elements)

Supernal Realms - Pure essential concepts
Supernal World - the essential concepts interactions with our levels of reality
Fallen World - the essential concepts corrupted by the Lie
Temenos - the Lie filtered though human perceptions and imagination

I think that's why you can end up with a Moon made of cheese that still symbolizes change/cycles/madness. Even though all the filtering you would still be able to encounter the Supernal in humanities collective dream realms. You also run across a lot of symbolism that has no Supernal significance.

At least that is my current take...

[ckobbe]

So, I just finished rereading the first chapter of Astral Realms. Can a change be made that a mage is able to bring some of her hard earned tools with her instead of needing to maintain multiple active spells just to have them available. It seems a little harsh to need to maintain two spells just to bring in a few points of tass and to have your casting tools available. Maybe a rule that for each point of Gnosis a mage can maintain sympathy and access 1 mystical item in their astral travels without having to resort to additional spells. So a Gnosis 3 mage could access 1 casting tool, 1 Mana of tass, and an imbues item. Just a thought...