[Open Dev]Signs of Sorcery-Introduction and Advanced Mage Sight

[arthexis]

I guess that would become more evident when we look at the writeup for supernal entities. My guess is that they use Arcana and basically follow some agenda related to their symbol (so they would be kind of like super-spirits).

[Nicolas Milioni]

So if a mage look too deep into the Supernal, the inhabitants of the supernal realms can see the mage and interact with the mage. I'm curious about something,can the inhabitants interact with whatever the mage was looking at the first place? Like,if the Thyrsus looks at a corpse,and a Beast from the primal wild shows up,will the Beast eat the corpse?

[thenate]

That's pretty much the same result with a different approach if you show the elements of unaligned realms as a bit more sparse than normal.

If mages see such alignments as their own path but with gaps filled in with the other realm's symbols, that could be fun.

[Isator Levi]

I would say that, with Emanations described as being akin to Fallen Verges in the Supernal, a mage of a different Path would see something equivalent to their Realm underlying the Fallen elements that are extending into the other Realm. I picture something similar for Supernal Verges, since they're still a particular Realm being more overt in the Fallen World, rather than the Realm itself. I'd say a lot of mages who try to come up with neat cosmology diagrams look at that kind of thing and see the universe as being more like a complex knot than a layer cake.

[thenate]

The danger of a formal answer on this is that it could knock out a major mystery.

If the answer is conclusively "It doesn't matter" or "It utterly matters" the options for interpreting the supernal world are drastically reduced. (That is, if the wrong path sees nothing or sees everything like they normally would.) To avoid that, I suggest something softer, where the wrong path gets some sorts of difficulties looking at things---especially if one of their arcana is inferior---but the sight still works. In emanations of non-path realms, if any, everyone would get a penalty, though some might get more or less than in others.

But what do I know?

[Menace]

Mage sight isn't attuned to Arkana, it's attuned to path. When he was talking about mage sight Dave many times said that a Moros can "see Stygia in the underworld" aka you see the realm overlapping over whatever place you are in. So the question is, can you see say Stygia in an Arcadian emanation and if yes, how does it look ?

[arthexis]

A question about mage sight and emanation realms:
What if in a emanation realm you use mage sight attuned to a realm different than the emanation ? For instance a Moros using mage sight in a Arcadian emanation realm.

Mmm, I don't think it would work any differently. After all, every Supernal Realm contain symbols for all Arcana anyways, just in different ratios.

[Omegaphallic]

A question about mage sight and emanation realms:
What if in a emanation realm you use mage sight attuned to a realm different than the emanation ? For instance a Moros using mage sight in a Arcadian emanation realm.

Good question.

[Menace]

A question about mage sight and emanation realms:
What if in a emanation realm you use mage sight attuned to a realm different than the emanation ? For instance a Moros using mage sight in a Arcadian emanation realm.

[Leetsepeak]

Or you could just assume they have a dice pool of 6 for important things and 3 for unimportant things. And a chance die for things they suck at. (And thereby avoid stats altogether.)

Oh, totally, those numbers are just there for systems that interact with them, (like if you have an ability that lowers attribute scores.) IIRC, this is why the antagonists in CofD, despite having simplified dice pools like is suggested, also gave attribute scores that are a part of those dice pools.

[Kumiko]

He is a Hunter, technically, but not one with supernatural powers, so I didn't mention it (as that still makes him a Sleeper). He belongs to Null Mysteriis. I believe he has Willpower 10 (I'm not the ST and don't have direct access to his stats), although by the chart in 1e Mage core he could have 8 or 9 and would still be immune to Disbelief. The fact that he remembers supernatural events differently from everyone around him is why he became a Hunter in the first place, if I'm remembering right (which is why the Sleeper template breaks his backstory and concept). He is notable for being incredibly strong-willed, which is necessarily true when your Resolve and Composure are both at least 4.

As I said a Hunter with willpower 10 is perfectly believable and in genre in my opinion. And yes he would be a sleeper. Luckily the sleeperwalker merit is a cheap, easy and totally logical solution to the issue given he's dealing with the supernatural practically on a daily basis. It makes no sense not to have that merit at some point.

[Juhn]

Willpower 10 sleeper? You can't actually be serious. The best you should assume without being either a Hunter or mover and shaker would be Willpower 8. And that is pushing it right to the edge of believability. It's your game though not mine. And not an issue I ever run into.

He is a Hunter, technically, but not one with supernatural powers, so I didn't mention it (as that still makes him a Sleeper). He belongs to Null Mysteriis. I believe he has Willpower 10 (I'm not the ST and don't have direct access to his stats), although by the chart in 1e Mage core he could have 8 or 9 and would still be immune to Disbelief. The fact that he remembers supernatural events differently from everyone around him is why he became a Hunter in the first place, if I'm remembering right (which is why the Sleeper template breaks his backstory and concept). He is notable for being incredibly strong-willed, which is necessarily true when your Resolve and Composure are both at least 4.

[Jacob]

No, "Average" people are actually pretty easy to make. 2 in every Attribute, 2 in relevant skills, size 5, you're done.

Or you could just assume they have a dice pool of 6 for important things and 3 for unimportant things. And a chance die for things they suck at. (And thereby avoid stats altogether.)

[Jacob]

Yes, but Philosophers pay their bills be taking things literally. (Think about the textual entailments and not the assumptions.) IMO, the discussions of the supernal world, etc., it seems to me that Mages are more philosopher than statistician. YMMV.

The relevant point is that there's really no such thing as an "average" person. Most people won't have 10 Willpower but some few will. So it's not outside the realm of possibility. More to the point though, if the plot needs it, go with it and don't fret.

[Charlaquin]

I wouldn't worry too much about what an "average" person looks like stat-wise. Once you do you have to start accepting weird things like, "the average plumber has 2.4 children." Not sure what 2.4 children look like. (And this is, of course, the kind of language problem that philosophers quibble about for years on end.)

It's really not that weird if you understand what the word "average" means in the context of statistics. The problem is, lots of people take "average" to mean "typical" or "most common". But that's not what statisticians mean when they say average. They mean that if you take all the kids of all the plumbers in the world and re-distribute them so that every plumber ends up with the same number of kids, each plumber will have to get two kids and two fifths of a third kid. Nobody actually has 2.4 kids, the number of plumber's kids just doesn't divide evenly between the number of plumbers.