Tamers of Fire (2E)

[Freemind]

How about this slight revision for the 5th Attainment?

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Optional Arcanum: Forces 5
At the height of his understanding, the Tamer can easily conjure flames from his hands to direct with both spells and his other Attainments. If he spends Mana and an Instant Action, he may simulate the "Create Energy" spell for the purpose of creating fire, with Reach assigned to give it Advanced Duration. Each point of Mana spent (up to a maximum of three) determines the heat of the flames he produces.

I actually think it was all good as it was. It was more the other spells, such as having the 3rd attainment with both advance scale and instant action using a 3 dot spell, along with a couple others. Honestly though, I like the whole thing so I don't know how much you have to change things.

[Leetsepeak]

Fabulous job. Although I don't have a super keen understanding of Attainments, I appreciate where I -think- they break the rules, because Attainments should absolutely be able to do that. Great job!

[Deionscribe]

Fabulous job. Although I don't have a super keen understanding of Attainments, I appreciate where I -think- they break the rules, because Attainments should absolutely be able to do that. Great job!

Thanks.

I'm also trying to make sense of the stuff on Attainments, myself, so that I can figure out how to handle individual Legacies, as well as my own House Rules for fixing a few quirks I have issue with (like Reach).

I'm probably going to try to do some conversions of a few other Legacies when I have time. Which include the Awakening Gambit, the Celestial Masters, and the Forge Masters. I might even try my hand at some of the other canon (and homebrew) Tamer Legacies as well.

[Jachra]

This reminds me of how intimidating a task it would be to update two of my favorite legacies, the Scions of God and the Sodality of the Tor. My favorite legacies are all about becoming things rather than doing.

I like it, I think it captures the themes of the original fairly well. I don't honestly mind adding in the free Reach mechanic, it feels necessary.

[Deionscribe]

Jachra

Thanks. And I'm glad you think so, too, on the free Reach mechanic.

[Justin Sane]

My take on this legacy:

1st attainment: Know Nature, Mind 1 (virtue/vice and aspirations/obsessions, reach: instant cast) / Influence Heat, Forces 1 (self only, reach: advanced duration) - The basics. I prefer Influence Heat's "comfort zone" to the "fire triggers PMS" thing. It's a cool concept, but due to how PMS works (you have to be in a position able to perceive the phenomena in the first place), it doesn't seem very useful. Also, figuring out if fire is magical or not, that's what AMS is for.

2nd attainment: Emotional Urging, Mind 2 (reach: instant cast) / Influence Fire, Forces 1 (reach: instant cast, sensory range) - I pretty much agree with what you've done here.

3rd attainment: Stoke the Flames (Practice: Ruling; Primary Factor: Duration; subject gains Inspired towards a goal defined by the caster), Mind 2 (reach: instant cast, advanced scale) / Control Fire, Forces 2 (reach: instant cast, sensory range) - Will of Fire seems like a cool spell, but I'd rather go with a familiar effect. Chalk it up to style differences.

4th attainment: Psychic Domination, Mind 2 (reach: instant cast, advanced scale, complex actions) / Firebolt (Thunderbolt, but fire), Forces 4 (reach: instant cast) - I don't really see how Clear Thoughts fits into the progression here. Keeping with the theme of "subtle manipulation", Psychic Domination seemed like the obvious choice. Also, at this point, Environmental Shield seems a bit meh, especially when it's redundant with Forces Mage Armor. And come on, if a Tamer of Fire can't actually create goodness gracious great balls of fire...

5th attainment: Augment Mind, Mind 3 (reach: advanced duration, advanced scale, split between 2 attributes) / ??? - On the Mind part, the longer duration (at this point, it's one week with advanced duration) after spending a scene giving a pep talk feels better than the short-term buff. As for Forces, I kinda wrote myself into a corner. All the other attainments can work together, but all my choices here boil down to "like the previous attainment, but better". I might go with an "everything around you is on fire now" effect, but I'm seriously open to suggestions here.

Yantras: Talking to a crowd (+1), nearby fire (+1 to +3 [take the fire's size from the Transform energy chart, yantra bonus is half that, rounded up]). - Also in need of some serious help here.

[Deionscribe]

My take on this legacy:

Took your Yantra suggestions for my version

And I might go with swapping out the optional Forces 1 Attainment with Influence Heat, once I've given it a good look at it. Not to mention swap in Firebolt for that Forces 4 one. For the fourth Mind Attainment, I'd probably go with Stoke the Flames over Psychic Domination. But either of those two (and Clear Thoughts) could fit as different interpretations of the Legacy at that level.

[Mrmdubois]

I don't see Psychic Domination as fitting, the Tamers of Fire stoke the flame of inspiration, it's not exactly their style to make you their puppet.

[Justin Sane]

For the fourth Mind Attainment, I'd probably go with Stoke the Flames over Psychic Domination. But either of those two (and Clear Thoughts) could fit as different interpretations of the Legacy at that level.

Yeah, I eventually rolled a die to help me decide And honestly, I'm seriously reconsidering the 5th attainment. Will of Fire would combo nicely with Stoke the Flames, and seems more fitting for the legacy than a generic stat-boost.

[Justin Sane]

I don't see Psychic Domination as fitting, the Tamers of Fire stoke the flame of inspiration, it's not exactly their style to make you their puppet.

Agreed. Would it help if the Tamer had to speak to the target(s) of all his Mind attainments, so he had to say the commands for Psychic Domination out loud, and that they effect everyone inside the area factors without discrimination? (This is why I gave the Mind attainments advanced scale. I see it like the influence spreading out from him, like heat from a bonfire)

[Teatime]

Deionscribe

Since a Tamer with fire-controlling Attainments will have at least Forces 2, this means these effects can last 2 turns or longer. This is important since it allows them to take other actions before the Attainment Duration ends. I think this write-up could be successfully made rules-compliant, if one pays for that extra Reach by locking the Duration at 1 turn.

[Mrmdubois]

Agreed. Would it help if the Tamer had to speak to the target(s) of all his Mind attainments, so he had to say the commands for Psychic Domination out loud, and that they effect everyone inside the area factors without discrimination? (This is why I gave the Mind attainments advanced scale. I see it like the influence spreading out from him, like heat from a bonfire)

No, I'd model the ability off a different spell completely.

[Justin Sane]

No, I'd model the ability off a different spell completely.

Can you give an example?

[Phersus]

I'm also trying to make sense of the stuff on Attainments, myself, so that I can figure out how to handle individual Legacies, as well as my own House Rules for fixing a few quirks I have issue with (like Reach).

I'm probably going to try to do some conversions of a few other Legacies when I have time. Which include the Awakening Gambit, the Celestial Masters, and the Forge Masters. I might even try my hand at some of the other canon (and homebrew) Tamer Legacies as well.

Great job with the Legacy; i am myself taking that Reach + 1 approach to Attainments, too. Could i persuade you to give the Sphinxes a try? I'm having some creative blockage with them

[Mrmdubois]

Can you give an example?

It's probably best to use some custom effect, like a Patterning effect that allows you to give a speech to fire people up and then for the duration they can risk WP like a Hunter, or inflict a Condition like Word of Truth from Prime but using Mind instead.