Tamers of Fire (2E)

[Justin Sane]

It's probably best to use some custom effect, like a Patterning effect that allows you to give a speech to fire people up and then for the duration they can risk WP like a Hunter, or inflict a Condition like Word of Truth from Prime but using Mind instead.

I think we might have to go with Weaving or Perfecting here, because we don't have enough Reach to make things interesting. But that "risking willpower" idea is nice, I'll try to write something down when I get off work.

[Mrmdubois]

I think you could get away with risking WP as a Perfecting effect. I'd set it up so giving a speech or trying to motivate is a scene to activate it and spend the 2 Reach on Advanced Duration and Advanced Scale.

[Justin Sane]

3rd attainment: Stoke the Flames (Practice: Ruling; Primary Factor: Duration; subject gains Inspired towards a goal defined by the caster), Mind 2 (reach: instant cast, advanced scale)
4th attainment: Burning Bright (Practice: Perfecting; Primary Factor: Potency; subject can spend 1 WP to add +Potency to a roll), Mind 3 (reach: instant cast, advanced scale)
5th attainment: Will of Fire (Practice: Perfecting; Primary Factor: Potency; subject gains Potency WP that can only be used towards a goal defined by the caster), Mind 3 (reach instant cast, advanced duration, advanced scale)

I'm inclined to go with these.

[Deionscribe]

Justin Sane

How's this for a more formal write-up of that spell? I'll probably get to work doing write-ups for that other spell, though I have a few issues over how Burning Bright works.

-=-

Stoke the Flames (Mind 2)
Practice: Ruling
Primary Factor: Duration
The Mage can urge a given subject towards accomplishing a particular goal of his choosing, This grants him the Inspired Condition for the duration of the spell, or until he chooses to resolve it earlier.

+2 Reach: By spending a point of Mana, the Mage allows a subject to avail of the Condition a number of times equal to the spell's Potency before it's resolved.

Great job with the Legacy; i am myself taking that Reach + 1 approach to Attainments, too. Could i persuade you to give the Sphinxes a try? I'm having some creative blockage with them

Mind linking me to them? Or at least giving me a specific book and page?

Oh, and did a few revisions to the Legacy write-up on the OP. Feel free to take a look.

[Justin Sane]

Deionscribe That looks awesome, really like that reach option too. Can I bother you to do the same for Burning Bright (Practice: Perfecting; Primary Factor: Potency; subject can spend 1 WP to add +Potency to a roll)?

[Deionscribe]

Deionscribe That looks awesome, really like that reach option too. Can I bother you to do the same for Burning Bright (Practice: Perfecting; Primary Factor: Potency; subject can spend 1 WP to add +Potency to a roll)?

Here you go

-=-

Burning Bright (Mind 3)
Practice: Perfecting
Primary Factor: Potency
The Mage can bless a subject so that a given action he exerts great effort on has a higher chance of success. When he spends Willpower to bolster an action or raise his resistance, he may choose to add the spell's Potency to the bonus.

+1 Reach: The subject may apply the benefits of the spell an additional number of times equal to Reach spent.

[Justin Sane]

The advantage of these things? I can now see my short description wasn't enough to explain what I had in mind ^^


-=-

Burning Bright (Mind 3)
Practice: Perfecting
Primary Factor: Potency
The Mage can bless a subject so that a given action he exerts great effort on has a higher chance of success. When he spends Willpower to bolster an action, he may add the spell's Potency as the bonus, instead of the usual +3.

+1 Reach: The subject may apply the benefits of the spell an additional number of times equal to Reach spent.

[Phersus]

Mind linking me to them? Or at least giving me a specific book and page?

Oh, and did a few revisions to the Legacy write-up on the OP. Feel free to take a look.

They can be found in Legacies the Ancient, page 92

About the changes you've made: i pretty much like them. However, where i would take a closer look would be at oblations: playing (or winning) a competitive game (any sport would do, but i was thinking about chess, for some reason), for instance, reading about historical leaders, teaching someone self-deffense or even playing guitar or some other instrument before someone other...

[Strill]

It seems to me that this is missing some of the principle features of the classical element of Fire. Classical Fire is a force that defines and shapes things, and which purifies things. This writeup is missing those properties. Classical Fire has two qualities: Dryness, and Warmth. Dryness represents physicality, identity, reliability, and stability. Warmth is a force that separates different things, and attracts like things. In other words, Warmth sorts things into their component parts. Think of an oil distillation tower. When you heat crude oil, it separates cleanly into each different kind of oil.

Taken together, Warmth is the power of choice, separating decision from rejection, and of purity, separating iron from slag. Dryness is will; a decision that cannot be changed, and the process of imposing choice in the world, as in a blacksmith's forge. The blacksmith's fire purges impurities from the iron and then forces the iron to conform to the shape he chooses.

In other words, this legacy strikes me as incomplete without an Attainment that involves using fire to shape things somehow, or to purify things.

[Deionscribe]

They can be found in Legacies the Ancient, page 92

About the changes you've made: i pretty much like them. However, where i would take a closer look would be at oblations: playing (or winning) a competitive game (any sport would do, but i was thinking about chess, for some reason), for instance, reading about historical leaders, teaching someone self-deffense or even playing guitar or some other instrument before someone other...

Thanks. Will look them up when I have time.

Added those suggestions of yours to the Oblations sections. Not to mention got around to revising the Forces 1 Attainment.

[Kumiko]

Humanity needs its heroes. The people need their inspirational leaders. Ever since the very beginnings of civilization, there have been the warriors and the statesmen, the men and women of honor and bright inspiration. The Taming of wild, dangerous Fire is one of the very first things that humans did, arguably the point at which they became fully human, as they took on the power and responsibility of the flame.


Flame Keepers

The Tamers of Fire are demagogues and rabble-rousers, who stoke the flames of others’ passions. They harness the flames as a primal energy, one that burns with wild abandon yet represents so much more than that. Fire, for them, is an element of many aspects. It is the element of will, unstoppable and implacable. It is the intuition and innovation that birthed civilizations. It is the spark of rage that can grow impossible to fight against. Fire is both creation and destruction, a transient force that burns away the old so new growth can emerge.

In Taming the Fire, the Champions embody all of these and more. They grow to understand their element, to mold it and make it their tool. They become the fire, and take on the role of the hero. And their magic concentrates on the element as both an abstract and physical force, from the inner fire of inspiration and courage to the uncanny manipulation of physical flame.


Origins

Parentage: Obrimos or Elemental Masteries

Background: Anyone can be a hero. In myth, the hero is just as often a lowly shepherd as he is the son of a king, a Maid of Orleans as often as the daughter of the King of France. The hero, and hence the Champion, is defined in spite of his or her origin, not because of it. The Tamers of Fire don't go looking for their pupils. Their pupils make themselves known to the Tamers. They look for those who distinguish themselves as leaders, as people of courage, and not just physical courage. They value intellectual courage and spiritual courage just as much, and value most of all an individual with the courage of his or her convictions.

Appearance: The Tamers of Fire can come from any walk of life. Many are good-looking and in fine physical shape. Although the skin on their arms and chests is sometimes marred after a while with small burns, most of the Tamers of Fire know how to avoid harm from flames, and a Champion with serious burn scars is rare. Eloquence is a must. Tamers of Fire often work their magic by convincing the flames to obey them. A person needs to be pretty convincing to do that.


Doctrine

Prerequisites: Gnosis 2, Mind 2, Presence 2, Expression 2, One Mental or Social Attribute at 2

Initiation: In order to prove himself worthy to his tutor, a potential Champion must undergo a quest or achieve some seemingly impossible feat.

Organization: As with the other Elemental Masteries, there's an expectation for Tamers of Fire to respect and aid other bearers of the Elemental Mark, but it's not an obligation. The only real bond among the Tamers of Fire is the bond that links tutor and pupil, and even that can be shaky. When individuals driven by such wild passions come together, fireworks all too often result.

Theory: The fire is in everyone. They just don't know it. And a passionate speaker or a true man of action can sway the fire within a man's heart. Some Champions aim for inspiration through excellence. Some excel in the field of sports. Others inspire through words, becoming crusading activists, defenders of rights, leaders in their field. Others still become heroes in their work. There are firefighters, police officers, paramedics, and soldiers among the Tamers, after all.


Magic

Ruling Arcanum: Mind

Yantras: Talking to a crowd (+1 to + 3), nearby fire (+1 to +3), Resolving the Inspired or Steadfast Condition (+3)

Oblations: Starting a campfire in the middle of nowhere by the "two sticks" method. Firewalking. Spending an entire night in physical training. Organizing a match of a team sport. Playing a competitive game. Reading about historical leaders. Teaching someone self-defense.


Attainments

1st Attainment: To Know the Fire
Prerequisites: Initiation
Before a Tamer of Fire can affect the flames of others, he must first discover what he can use so he may ignite them to greater heights. This Attainment duplicates the "Know Nature" spell, and automatically determines a target's Virtue, Vice, Mental and Social Attributes, and Aspirations and Obsessions as an Instant action.

Optional Arcanum: Forces 1
The Tamer's affinity to physical flames begins with an understanding of the conditions which prove conductive to their existence. He may use this Attainment to simulate the "Influence Heat" spell, with Reach assigned to make it an Instant Action with Advanced Duration.


2nd Attainment: To Touch The Fire
Prerequisites: Gnosis 2, Mind 2, Expression 3
The Tamer reaches out to the inspiration found in others. His charisma allows him to influence their hearts and minds with fiery sway and impassioned rhetoric. This Attainment employs the "Emotional Urging" spell as an Instant effect, and affects anyone targeted within sensory range.

Optional Arcanum: Forces 2
The Tamer of Fire now learns to use his transformed nature to commune with flames and control them. He speaks to the flames or makes the appropriate gestures to direct them according to his desires. This Attainment duplicates the "Influence Fire" spell, with Reach assigned to make it an Instant Action and to target flames at sensory range.


3rd Attainment: To Catch The Fire
Prerequisites: Gnosis 4, Mind 3, Presence 3
The Tamer of Fire can now share his enthusiasm for an enterprise with others, catching the fire of inspiration and molding it into a tool. Speaking out with passion and force, he gives others the will to succeed. A Mage with this Attainment can replicate "Stoke the Flames" as an Instant Action, with Reach spent to use it at sensory range with Advanced Scale.

Optional Arcanum: Forces 3
The Mage can control and mold physical fire with ease. Through a gesture or a spoken word, he may duplicate the effects of the Control Fire Spell at sensory range as an Instant Action. The Attainment is also treated as having Potency equal to the Tamer's dots in the Forces Arcanum.


4th Attainment: Embrace The Fire
Prerequisites: Gnosis 6, Mind 4, Expression 4, Chosen Attribute at 3 or another raised to 2.
The Mage can call upon his inner fire to raise the spirit of his followers from hardship. Words meant to inspire courage reignite the flames of determination in short order. This Attainment mimics the "Will of Fire" spell, and can done as an Instant action with Reach assigned to give it an Advanced Scale.

Optional Arcanum: Forces 4
By now, the Tamer has progressed to the point that he can weave flames to his hands in a heartbeat before sending them at his enemies. This Attainment conjures a projectile similar to that made by the Thunderbolt spell, except that the damage is fire-based. It can be employed as an Instant Action, and the Tamer may spend Mana to upgrade the damage from lethal to aggravated


5th Attainment: Become The Fire
Prerequisites: Gnosis 8, Mind 5, Presence 4
The Mage can now use the fire in his heart to refine and burn away the imperfections in the hearts of the people who follow him. With a word of criticism here, and one of encouragement there, the hearts of the Mage's friend burn within them. Their eyes see more clearly, their minds think faster, their own tongues speak more powerfully. This Attainment duplicates the "Augment Mind" spell, with Reach assigned to make it Instant, target anyone in sensory range. and allocate its Potency among two Mental and/or Social Attributes.

Optional Arcanum: Forces 5
At the height of his understanding, the Tamer can easily conjure flames over a large area, which he may then affect with his spells and Attainments. He may use this Attainment to mimic the "Create Energy" spell for the purpose of creating fire. Reach is assigned to make it an Instant Action with Advanced Scale.

Finally a legacy that makes sense and is useful in any situation. This is what I'd look for if I'm going to permanently shape my soul. Good work and it fits elemental fire exactly.

[Deionscribe]

Finally a legacy that makes sense and is useful in any situation. This is what I'd look for if I'm going to permanently shape my soul. Good work and it fits elemental fire exactly.

Thanks.

Glad to hear you like the conversion.

[Kumiko]

Also why the obsession to weaken a legacy that is practically an order unto itself? These guys are foil to the Tremere and the reason why young guys like MCN should give some thought about the tortured antihero archetype and start thinking why that is so even in the most fantastical definition. The oblulations are fine especially given the fact we already have at least 2-3 versions of the chess/puppet master thing via other legacies. These guys don't play games they are demagogues with actual backing. Like the Asian definition of Fire these guys are doers first yet aren't stupid given fire is first and foremost about intelligence, speed and charisma. Just watch modern politics and you'll understand what I'm getting at. And what totally nails it is the fact that you're usually dealing with people that are Forces/Prime favored, they are technomages naturally.

[Kumiko]

Anne Rice, Lestat and possibly heroic liches fit far better in Vampire rather then Mage mythology.

[Deionscribe]

Also why the obsession to weaken a legacy that is practically an order unto itself? These guys are foil to the Tremere and the reason why young guys like MCN should give some thought about the tortured antihero archetype and start thinking why that is so even in the most fantastical definition. The oblulations are fine especially given the fact we already have at least 2-3 versions of the chess/puppet master thing via other legacies. These guys don't play games they are demagogues with actual backing. Like the Asian definition of Fire these guys are doers first yet aren't stupid given fire is first and foremost about intelligence, speed and charisma. Just watch modern politics and you'll understand what I'm getting at. And what totally nails it is the fact that you're usually dealing with people that are Forces/Prime favored, they are technomages naturally.

I'm not quite sure if I get what you said by "weakening the Legacy". This conversion was made to work with a write-up I also did for the Elemental Masteries as a Nameless Order, so you can probably expect 2E conversions for the other Tamer Legacies as well.

On the other hand, I do have to agree that a Tamer of Fire would be a good foil to a Tremere Lich. And I've seen and read enough on modern politics that I have a good idea what you mean On a related note, a character concept for a Champion whose day job is that of a Social Worker also works in my opinion.