[2E Hack] More interesting Duel Arcane

[wyrdhamster]

On today’s game session we used the new Duel Arcane rules and loved basic idea of it, with imaging how spells could be cast and all. However, mechanical implementation is just… boring. It’s much more now ‘Who gets to success on opening Door first’ instead on real tactic or even just ‘You made exceptional attack now’. It’s even more weird as Social Maneuvering rules – on what Duel Arcane system is based on – has some interesting twists and turns. This topic is to make it reality.

Ideas on Duel Arcane rules:

• Exceptional Successes on Attack opens two Doors.
• Defend action let you roll twice Gnosis + Arcanum dices.

This should makes any Duel more interesting. Adding a Merit or two should make working as Duel champion nice business.

[Mr.F.I.X.]

I will probably cut out the duel arcane mechanics when I run as a personal hack. I just feel that one could have far more interesting duels without a social maneuvering like system with mages boasting what they could do. This is more just because I can see at least a few ways that mages could duel that wouldn't be covered (from what I have read at least) by the duel arcane. Like mages having a duel via proxy, using their magic through a physical or ephemeral being and seeing who can wield the stronger 'beast'. Or an all out duel to the death in the astral with minimal penalties for the loser at least when compared to loosing such a duel in the material world.

[Falcon777]

One thing that mundane combat has that the duel arcane doesn't, at least in 2e, is being able to attack and defend in the same round. That's the most obvious use for a merit that I could see (because there's little point in just defending yourself).

[wyrdhamster]

I will probably cut out the duel arcane mechanics when I run as a personal hack. I just feel that one could have far more interesting duels without a social maneuvering like system with mages boasting what they could do. This is more just because I can see at least a few ways that mages could duel that wouldn't be covered (from what I have read at least) by the duel arcane. Like mages having a duel via proxy, using their magic through a physical or ephemeral being and seeing who can wield the stronger 'beast'. Or an all out duel to the death in the astral with minimal penalties for the loser at least when compared to loosing such a duel in the material world.

It's a pitty you want to do this - because it's not how new Duel Arcane system is to be run. They do not 'boasting' - they make holograms of what they can do. My players where showing their oponent visions of stealing their years, crashing their minds or throwing on them small asteroid. And it's there logical that it takes Willpower point for each opened Door in Duel after it.

You can also easily change how it is conducted that way - just change Attack dice pool for something other. You want Ephemeral Battle - use summonings dice pools. All out combat in Astral has even more sense - you fought over your Willpower points, in the end, that works as Health in Astral.

And most and for most - by rules, each Duel ends with losing Willpower points only. Death is done as terms of ending the Duel, not on the Duel itself. It really is battle of minds by new rules!

[Mrmdubois]

Because it's affecting social stats, and because you're not actually casting the spells it is in fact a form of boasting. "I can do this to you, see?"

[wyrdhamster]

If they would be really casting spells it would be not Duel Arcane - it would be just magical combat. Duels should be different by just slinging spells, more honorable and civilized.

[Strill]

Did you notice how if you fail your roll, you can no longer use that arcanum? That makes Defense a viable tactic.

[Mrmdubois]

If they would be really casting spells it would be not Duel Arcane - it would be just magical combat. Duels should be different by just slinging spells, more honorable and civilized.

I don't disagree, I'm pointing out that it is in fact, a boasting match.

[saibot]

Another way to make it more interesting is using the Arms of Invocation and Banishing rules from Tome of the Mysteries. The way how I would adapt it to the current rules is something like this:

Both contestants have to secretly decide on which Arcanum they will use that turn before any attacks are made. They reveal their choices at the same time. Then actions are taken as normal. If an attacker's Arcanum is one step above the enemy's on the banishing cycle he gains a +2 to his roll. If a defender's Arcanum is one step above the enemy's on the invocation cycle he gains a +2 to his roll.

You could also add a variation of the Combined Arms rule. A character who is defending and has at least two Arcana that have an invoking relationship can sacrifice one of them (making it impossible to attack or defend with that Arcanum later) to close one of his Doors again. A character who is attacking and has at least two Arcana that have a banishing relationship can sacrifice one of them (making it impossible to attack or defend with that Arcanum later) to add that Arcanum's rating to his attack (essentially rolling Attribute + Arcanum + Arcanum).

Edit: Also, a personal idea if you want to improve player involvement: Reward particularly apt or colourful descriptions with extra dice. Especially when they are tailored to the enemy in some fashion.

Edit2: If you really like the sort of Pokémon-like fights that the above two rules encourage, I would expand to Attributes too. Something like: Power crushes Finesse, Finesse circumvents Resistance, Resistance withstands Power. Social subdues Physical, Physical smashes Mental, Mental chains Social. For each aspect of your Attribute that exploits the weakness of the enemy's Attribute, gain a +1.

[lnodiv]

Only had one Duel in my current game, but it was awesome as-is. I just used Defend actions until the other dude was out of Arcana. Humiliating loss for him.

If I'd been rolling twice as many dice, that would have been a risk-free strategy. Not sure why doubling is required.

[wyrdhamster]

One thing that mundane combat has that the duel arcane doesn't, at least in 2e, is being able to attack and defend in the same round. That's the most obvious use for a merit that I could see (because there's little point in just defending yourself).

Sorry, for long returning to idea, Falcon777, but HOW can in 2E normal combat rules both attack and defend? And how too use this in Duel Arcana?

[Tessie]

Primarily by applying Defence, but there's at least one Merit (Armed Defence, page 60 in CofD) for disarming or even counter attacking opponents by defending.