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Why is immortality such a big deal?

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  • #46
    Probably the cleanest way to become Immortal is becoming on of the Purified (WoD:Immortals). Immortality, powers,and you can still live like a regular person (mostly).


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    • #47
      One of the Legacies in Mage: The Transgression is going to be focused on immortality, but since it's relatively easy for Mages to have, they're primarily focused on giving it to others and spreading acceptance of it within and outside of Enlightened society.

      Their Attainments are based around helping them survive things, and their ultimate Attainment is a sort of berserker fury powered by their own fear of death.

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      • #48
        Slaves of the Psychopomp then.

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        • #49
          I think much of it is rooted in Hollywood Morality, which does not reflect real life very well.
          But on the other hand, the older you are the higher chance you are to have some very stagnant beliefs.
          I don't want my racist grandma being immortal, because she shows no inclination to stop being racist.

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          • #50
            If you pass a not-racist test, then do you get the nanobots?

            But I'm not sure if we're talking morality here so much as mechanics.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Mrmdubois View Post
              Slaves of the Psychopomp then.
              Not even remotely, and not just because the Exarchs don't exist in the same way in Transgression.

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              • #52
                I think its important to note the difference between what Mages look at as life extention and true immortality.

                If its a fragile spell, that would be viewed as life extension, which would not make you a Lich. It'd ne like taking a pill that doubles your life span, you just a long lived human.

                But a true lich crosses the line into inhuman in order to achieve true immortality. The become a Spirit, Ghost, Treme, something stranger, and their humanity and connection gets weaker as time goes on.

                So the 4 choices for Mages who fear death are:

                1. Life Extension, the mage equivilant of eating right.

                2. Becoming a Lich, the worse of which are Reapers, none Reaper Liches would be more likely to looked up with dusgust, instead of as pure dangerous evil like a Reaper Lich.

                3. Ascenion.

                4. Look outside Mage Magic, certain Changeling magics for example could extend a mages lifespan, potentially to an unlimited to degree, but other Mages will see you as the pawn of such a powerful changeling.
                Last edited by Omegaphallic; 08-08-2016, 10:07 PM.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Unahim View Post

                  I'm not sure you're using the right definition of "Lasting" here. A "Lasting" magical effect is not a condition that can never change. Lasting simply means that a change wrought through magic will last past its duration, on its own. Healing spells like Knit are Lasting, but that does not mean you become immune to taking damage. A spell that pulls heat from one room into another will have a Lasting effect, because the heat will not magically return to the original room when the Duration ends. If you open a door between the rooms though, the fact that the effect was Lasting will not keep the heat trapped in the second room, and unable to go into the first.

                  Similarly, you are not trying to cast a spell to "not age". You simply cast a spell that heals your body back to the state it was, say, last year, once a year, and that effect should then be Lasting. Not because you can no longer age after that, but because you will not magically age a year at the end of the duration.

                  Perhaps you're confusing it with a spell with Indefinite duration?
                  I did read that carefully, the problem is: there is no spell which can heal you to your past self. Mage has an objective present. To bring your past body back you need Temporal Summoning, which is explicitly not lasting. You can suspend yourself in time with Veile of Moments, but then you deny yourself the possibility to advance in any way. Time is objectively advandcing in Mage and you can only suspend it's effects on a human/mages body by active magic. And active magic is not a lasting effect. Lasting effects have to be something that can naturally sustain itself without magic.

                  If you read the chapter about Liches, you will see that you can also sustain your body with permanent regeneration spells from Life or Death e.g. to stay healthy, but that also requires constant, active magic.

                  It all boils down to the fact, that normal Mages have a body and that body ages. To become immortal you need to get rid of that body somehow or replace it constantly. And I hope everybody sees how this is first and foremost and act of hubris and has other ethical implications, too. On the very least you get disconnected from the world. You lose your ability to sense via a living body, you lose the needs for food, sleep and such. This disconnection will very practically make you unable to feel empathy towards human beeings or other mages after a while or will force you, to use an extrem effort to actually stay connected.
                  Last edited by HardcoreHannes; 08-09-2016, 03:19 AM.

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                  • #54
                    They have a body...and a mind. And a soul. Who also age.

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                    • #55
                      It seems like with enough Life, it would be trivial to clone a young body, transfer your brain into it, and rejuvenate the cells in your brain. You could say that's all Life, or if you want to make it harder, make it Life+Mind. But still pretty easy.

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                      • #56
                        In Mage cosmology, you can have a brick with no brain cells but with a mind. I don't think that rejuvenating your brain would enough. Then you have the Fate of all things to die. Then you have Prime symbols incorporated into "Humans are things that do X, Y, Z, and are U, C, V", where probably there is a symbol of "and they die". And so on.

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                        • #57
                          Is it just me or is it kind of hilarious that immortality is harder to achieve in a game about magic superwizards than it is in real life?

                          There's also the problem of game themes clashing. Mage makes immortality incredibly hard to achieve, yet becoming a vampire or any of the things in Immortals is something any random person could potentially do.

                          If anything, all this stuff is making me even more confident about removing the Supernal and the symbology element in my remake.

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                          • #58
                            Yes, immortality in real life is so easy. Heck, I'm getting my youth booster shot this weekend.

                            You can't call it easy until it's actually happened and is in fact easy.

                            You know, if you want to keep plugging your homebrew make another thread.

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                            • #59
                              I mean easy in that real life doesn't have Supernal symbols or fate, so immortality is purely a biological matter and does involve tinkering with the fundamental foundations of reality.

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                              • #60
                                Death is part of the Human Condition. In the Awakened cosmology, the human condition is important. Bending your magical talents to escaping death is analogous to excise the ability to feel sadness, or joy, or the ability to make mistakes and learn from them. Pursuing immortality ostracizes the mage from pentacle society, because at it's core it's an attempt to stick around further in the Fallen world when the Fallen world is bad. It's something that probably edges a little too close to Seer outlook for a lot of pentacle mages to be super comfortable with as well.



                                When one is accustomed to privilege, equality seems like oppression.

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