Why is immortality such a big deal?

[Omegaphallic]

I still say ascension would be seen as the proper path to immortality.

[Mrmdubois]

Best advice? Read the thread.

[Omegaphallic]

Let's face it, the reason there's an "uproar" is that I was an asshole and couldn't leave it alone.

I don't understand what did you do?

[Menace]

@thenate: sorry for being nitpicky but transcription and replication are two different processes and shouldn't be used as synonims. Again, sry, I had too.

Not that that has anything to do with Mage. I'd let you use a Perfecting or propably even Rulling spell of Life to stop aging as long as the spell lasts. Or maybe an Unravelling of Death.

[Axelgear]

Mages can grow wings and fly or photosynthesize. Why not?

[Nyrufa]

That said, the Awakened work symbolically, not scientifically, so they could just borrow the symbol of eternal youth from one of these critters, I suppose. Beware, though, for you may get more than you bargained for.

Could a Mage transfer the essence of a tardigrade to human biology?

[Axelgear]

Yeah, and while we're being downers over complexity, restoring telomeres might work for lobsters (maybe) but it won't for humans. The Hayflick limit is integrated into the growth and development of tissues; just deciding to slap on as many telomeric repeats as possible to the end of the genome could potentially play merry havoc. Even if it doesn't, constitutive telomerase is a recipe for cancer, since a significant biological advantage of the Hayflick limit is that it prevents the spread of cancerous cells; adding another signal path by means of which their reproduction might be limited. Constitutive telomerase expression is found in as the vast majority of tumours.

That said, the Awakened work symbolically, not scientifically, so they could just borrow the symbol of eternal youth from one of these critters, I suppose. Beware, though, for you may get more than you bargained for.

[thenate]

Well I'm not a doctor, but I believe the reason people age is because we don't have an infinite number of cells, and over time we start to run out. Cancer causes us to produce cells at an uncontrolled rate.

So, the idea was give your body some brand new, healthy cells and you put off the aging process another few decades. Also, the whole repairing physical damage thing.

More like there start to be too many errors in the replication process. When cells divide they have to replicate their DNA, "unzipping" it, using RNA to help replicate, and a bunch of other stuff I can't remember in detail off the top of my head. Over time, you're making a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy, and eventually it becomes copies all the way down. Those copies might be imperfect, like trying to make a photocopy of a photocopy, until eventually the body just can't keep up or something fails.

There is a replication limit and cells simply die. No damage is required for this endpoint to kick in. (There are phases where these timers get refreshed, such as in germ cells.) It's part of the transcription process.

There is also a factor where cells get damaged until they can't replicate properly. This is largely why people blither on about anti-oxidents vs. free radicals.

Aging isn't one simple thing.

[Nyrufa]

Yeah, just having an over abundance of stem cells wouldn't fix aging.

Aw, phooey.

[Maina]

Lobsters, as a note, are capable of producing a substance (telomerase) that repairs DNA when the repeated copying process degrades it. They don't really degrade with age. They just eventually get too big to survive molting. But perhaps a mage could use Transform Life to apply this feature to themselves and repair the degrading DNA that leads to symptoms of aging.

There are plenty of other biologically immortal (that is, their chance of death doesn't increase with age) creatures you could nab that feature from, too.

And while it won't ever be Lasting for the mage, it would be for their kids with the Reach option that allows for it.

Now that's an interesting plot. A bloodline of immortals sired by a long-dead Life mage.

[Mrmdubois]

Yeah, just having an over abundance of stem cells wouldn't fix aging.

[Arcanist]

Well I'm not a doctor, but I believe the reason people age is because we don't have an infinite number of cells, and over time we start to run out. Cancer causes us to produce cells at an uncontrolled rate.

So, the idea was give your body some brand new, healthy cells and you put off the aging process another few decades. Also, the whole repairing physical damage thing.

More like there start to be too many errors in the replication process. When cells divide they have to replicate their DNA, "unzipping" it, using RNA to help replicate, and a bunch of other stuff I can't remember in detail off the top of my head. Over time, you're making a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy, and eventually it becomes copies all the way down. Those copies might be imperfect, like trying to make a photocopy of a photocopy, until eventually the body just can't keep up or something fails.

[Nyrufa]

Haha it really isn't immortality though, just magical plastic surgery.

Well I'm not a doctor, but I believe the reason people age is because we don't have an infinite number of cells, and over time we start to run out. Cancer causes us to produce cells at an uncontrolled rate.

So, the idea was give your body some brand new, healthy cells and you put off the aging process another few decades. Also, the whole repairing physical damage thing.

[salientmind]

Heck, just magicking yourself some new stem cells could probably do the trick. Stop your body from experiencing cellular degeneration.


I think one of the major points about why immortality is such a big deal is due to the fact that unlike Werewolves, Vampires, Changelings and such, a Mage has little reason to be tortured by their longevity. They have the potential to live perfectly happy, normal human lives and blend seamlessly into society. That's something the other monsters don't get to do.

Sounds like they're jealous, really.

Haha it really isn't immortality though, just magical plastic surgery.

[Mrmdubois]

And yet you keep bringing it up like that is somehow going to make it better?

As frustrating as it may have been we're past the point where continuing to be annoyed is productive.