[2E] Alternative Daeva Clan Bane

[wyrdhamster]

So I want to have Daeva Bishop NPC in my games to use. In 1E he would be perfect by choosing this Clan, as he was extremely passionate about his faith, is much more social animal than physical and Clan Bane was dwelling more in to his Vice. Then I read 2E Clan Bane and I think it's soooo much limiting Daeva characters concepts I want to change it. Any ideas on Alternative Clan Bane that is not centered only on obsession over your food?

[Charlaquin]

Have you considered leaving the Clan Bane as-is, and giving the character the Vice-Ridden Merit? It is a slight house rule, but I've found it quite effective to allow non-human characters to take Viruous and/or Vice-ridden, adding a Virtue and/or Vice in addition to their template-specific Anchors. This has the benefit of rewarding the player for playing into those character traits instead of punishing them for avoiding them, in keeping with 2e's carrots over sticks philosophy.

[tsusasi]

When their Humanity drops to 6, have them pick one of the 7 vices from 1st edition. If they don't indulge that vice when the oportunity arises, roll Humanity, if they fail they get afflicted by the Lethargic condition until they indulge that vice. If the roll succeeds they lose 1 Willpower.

[SunlessNick]

What if he remains obsessed, but it manifests differently - much more concerned with the spiritual welfare of his victims, perhaps as recompense for what they're sacrificing for his sake - twisted pastoralism rather than love.

[Spencer from The Hills]

Here are a couple of possibly less than constructive points.
1. You make it sound as if a tendency to get attached to one's prey is somehow mutually exclusive with being a Vice-ridden, fervent Longinian.
2. Isn't he so old that he's mostly past feeding on mortals anyway? Now I think of it, that's an interesting milestone for Daeva. I expect that most would want to go into torpor at that point to keep finding romance in blood so to speak. But perhaps not a dedicated and ascetic archbishop of the Lancea et Sanctum.

[Second Chances]

Can you unpack why you think the Daeva bane is limiting Wyrd?

[wyrdhamster]

Can you unpack why you think the Daeva bane is limiting Wyrd?

It's about feeding every other human, each night. In my Archbishop example - he runs dark masses of Lancea, have whole domain to run, and theology to study. In classical 'Seducer' concept Daeva it works great - your character IS about hunting on new people, each night. But if you want to go with 'Sinner' Daeva of 1E, it leads to dedicating, in reality, only to Lust or Greed ( in 1E terms of Vice ).

This Archbishop would be all about Faith, Pride and maybe a little Wrath. He is seeing himself as 'Dark Angel of Lord', fullfiling God's Word and burning heretics that threatens his creed ( he is previous Protestant witch hunter ). It has nothing linked with thirst for many humans, but it's all about seeing oneself as 'faithfull', when in reality you are 'wicked'. That's why 1E Clan Bane ( or something like it ) was perfect for character, and 2E official version is just bad.

[Holy]

I posit that there's a classic archetype here you could take advantage of. Though to be fair, some might call it cliche. But rejecting the kiss or being ashamed of it fits pretty well with an Abrahamic zealot. How does he react to this nightly need for what he considers perversion or infidelity? What happens when his beast gets the better of him and he indulges? What kind of mortals does he search out to feed on? Does he try to find a new victim each night, trying to limit any sort of connection whatsoever with his victims? Does he try and find the 'perfect' mortal to feed from? Someone holy and pure? What happens when they reject him? Or when his undead life starts harming their piety or upending their perfection? Does he cut past all of this, making deals with young neonates to drink their blood where he has a good chance of resisting the bond, at least once? Does he hunt something other than humans to feed from - more dangerous, but without the risk of the Vinculum or an Obsession?

[Justin Sane]

Is this Archbishop the head of a cult? If so, instant Herd you do not want to mess with.

Not everyone actively avoids their Clan Bane. Some might even embrace it.

[Vitalis]

Can you unpack why you think the Daeva bane is limiting Wyrd?

I am also wondering why one might think it is limiting to the core concept. It shouldn't limit who you are in any way. it should give flavor to characters. Inner conflict and problems to work through.

It's about feeding every other human, each night. In my Archbishop example - he runs dark masses of Lancea, have whole domain to run, and theology to study. In classical 'Seducer' concept Daeva it works great - your character IS about hunting on new people, each night. But if you want to go with 'Sinner' Daeva of 1E, it leads to dedicating, in reality, only to Lust or Greed ( in 1E terms of Vice ).

This Archbishop would be all about Faith, Pride and maybe a little Wrath. He is seeing himself as 'Dark Angel of Lord', fullfiling God's Word and burning heretics that threatens his creed ( he is previous Protestant witch hunter ). It has nothing linked with thirst for many humans, but it's all about seeing oneself as 'faithfull', when in reality you are 'wicked'. That's why 1E Clan Bane ( or something like it ) was perfect for character, and 2E official version is just bad.

The bane isn't "feeding on every other human each night" It's more about "should you feed on the same person more than once (After you get the bane ) You might grow obsessed with them." You could get a ghoul and only feed on the ghoul creating a odd need to keep that ghoul around. Then he would be "faithful" to that ghoul... You could feed on some of your church members and then get the obsessive need to protect them and educate them. I don't see how this doesn't work for your character's concept on becoming an Archbishop in the Lance.

You have options, You can embrace the bane, you can actively try not to get the bane and keep your humanity up, change how daeva work, or change the concept of the character. Personally, I dont see a need for the last two at all. Though I don't think this bane is about hunting and seducing.... it could be, but fundamentally it's not.


EDIT:
Daeva immerse themselves in the mortal world; it not only
feeds them, it compels them. When Daeva choose vessels, they
become obsessed. When they drink from a mortal once, they’re
fine. On their second and further drinks from the same source,
roll Humanity. Failure causes the Persistent Dependent Condition
toward the mortal (see p.302). The Condition only goes away with the
mortal’s death. For this reason, Daeva tend toward either remarkable
promiscuity, or they cultivate massive harems and herds

Dependent says to look in the stage 2 blood bond and this is the line that I take the most from "It’s a strong, pervasive affection that
makes you vulnerable, and keeps you persistently wanting more."

[Irioth]

As much as I fancy the Daeva, I'm no fan of the current version of their clan bane, since I agree with the OP it seems overly burdensome and restrictive for certain kinds of feeding styles and character concepts. However if one is not willing or able to house rule it, or adopt other strategies to circumvent it, there is always the option of the Coil of Ziva to effectively nullify a burdensome Clan Bane.

[LokiRavenSpeak]

So I want to have Daeva Bishop NPC in my games to use. In 1E he would be perfect by choosing this Clan, as he was extremely passionate about his faith, is much more social animal than physical and Clan Bane was dwelling more in to his Vice. Then I read 2E Clan Bane and I think it's soooo much limiting Daeva characters concepts I want to change it. Any ideas on Alternative Clan Bane that is not centered only on obsession over your food?

Not related to the Daeva clan but to the Sanctified, i remember reading a Theban sorcery ritual that allow a vampire to not having to spend 1 vitae to wake up but at the cost of not being able to feed. I cant seem to find it but i remember reading it as i had a write up for a bishop who used that ritual extensively.

[wyrdhamster]

Adding to discussion - Daeva Bishop will be high Blood Potency character, probably BP 6-8 on him. That means he will be feeding from vampires only - How Daeva Bane hit's him there?

[tsusasi]

He's addicted to the blood of humans that don't sustain him any longer.
Mechanically under stage 2 vinculums to a lot of vampires.
He demands unreasonable blood tithes from the laity to feed himself. This enables rivals to point to his greed making him unfit to lead or means he compromises too often in order to avoid losing access to their blood.

[Nosimplehiway]

I can sort of see where wyrdhamster is coming from. The old Daeva weakness was objectively more customizable to the individual character concept, based on which Vice they had.

Now, it turned out that in the fluff Daeva were nearly always portrayed as having Lust as their vice, with a few examples here and there of Wrath. The line never really got around to exploring the possibilities of obsessively following other Vices like Sloth, Greed, or Envy. Pride would be awesome for a Bishop. Envy also has some interesting possibilities for a vampire who was a witch hunter in life, considering that this is a setting where there are actual witches, with real magic beyond the ken of mere mortals.

The current weakness is okay. Meh. It fits the stereotype of the hyper-social Daeva, whether as a club hopper or cult leader, and that's fine. It doesn't have the same sense of individuality that the old weakness had, though. Every Daeva has the same weakness, just different coping mechanisms.

Plus, it raises some mechanical issues, like if a vampire is in the same city from 1920 until 2017, should the ST occasionally check to see if that old lady the character fed from in the nursing home was also the little girl the vampire fed on during the Depression, or is there a time limit between feeding? Or what happens if the mortal ceases being mortal, and joins the menagerie of not-human creatures after the attachment is made? And, in most instances, higher Blood Potency is supposed to be a bad thing for feeding, but for Daeva it means, effectively, no more weakness.

Also, since every Daeva has the same weakness, that makes them more easily targeted. Where are the vampiric rivals who ghoul a human, then manipulate the situation so the Daeva feeds twice on the rival's thrall?

I just think the old weakness had real potential which never got tapped, and it's a shame to see it go away.

I would suggest, wyrdHamster, just talk to your ST and see if they will let you use the old weakness.