Diablerising a strix

[Marios_Tzi]

T was wondering what would happen if a vampire commit amaranth at a a vampire possesed by a strix?

[Live Bait]

My inner rule lawyer isn’t sure but the fact that when they leave a host that host gets the benefit of any act of diablerie and also needs to make the braking point roll implies that Strix are not simply concentrated vampiric essence.
It’s also interesting that a Strix always gains only one Shadow Potency from the act regardless of their victims SP.

[tsusasi]

If I'm STing in this purely hypothetical and unlikely scenario, the Strix essence is automatically and inescapably trapped in the diablerist and I would roll a 50/50 percentile to see if the diablerist manages to pull the "soul" of the host vampire also or if it escapes.
The diablerist gets the standard diablerie prize as if he had diablerized the vampire unpossessed but detects as permanently tainted (by the Strix essence) and no amount of Aggravated damage clears it.
It's an inverted possession, the diablerist can spend a willpower point to force the Strix use it's relevant abilities for the diablerist to use if it can pay relevant activation costs but the diablerist has to keep the Strix "fed" as well.

[DubiousRuffian]

If I'm STing in this purely hypothetical and unlikely scenario, the Strix essence is automatically and inescapably trapped in the diablerist and I would roll a 50/50 percentile to see if the diablerist manages to pull the "soul" of the host vampire also or if it escapes.
The diablerist gets the standard diablerie prize as if he had diablerized the vampire unpossessed but detects as permanently tainted (by the Strix essence) and no amount of Aggravated damage clears it.
It's an inverted possession, the diablerist can spend a willpower point to force the Strix use it's relevant abilities for the diablerist to use if it can pay relevant activation costs but the diablerist has to keep the Strix "fed" as well.

Do you think you'd feed it with vitae or with vice? I feel like this could be a really cool opportunity to implement a shadow guide (from wraith).

[Rose Bailey]

This is so rare that whatever happens needs to be spectacular. I'm thinking something like permanent yellow eyes, the vampire's blood turning to smoke, and memories of the ancient past, before writing or language or fire, when human beings were merely instincts and fear and wits and hunger.

[Tessie]

We've always had attempted diablerie on a Strix be an invitation to being possessed (even if the Strix doesn't have the right Embodiment). If the Strix fails to possess the diablerist, it's likely ejected rather than diablerised (its former host is diablerised either way, unless it was a human or a corpse). We're drawing from the story of En Isiratuu in Ancient Mysteries who was tricked into attempting to diablerise a being containing seven "shadowy demons" and failed spectacularly.

[DubiousRuffian]

Golconda.

I'm only halfway joking - but you'd be a human-derivative and you've eaten a human spirit-derivative. In a sense, you'd be the most complete person alive. I'm not sure how I would make it awesome enough a PC, but I'd probably make it terrible and horrible and tragic for an NPC.

[tsusasi]

Do you think you'd feed it with vitae or with vice? I feel like this could be a really cool opportunity to implement a shadow guide (from wraith).

Both. As time passes, vitae alone wouldn't be enough to sustain the Strix. The diablerist is going to have to go out and purchase relevant merits to accumulate willpower from indulging vices but he doesn't get the willpower, the Strix essence does. I'd also implement mechanics of some sort where the Strix eats away at the diablerist's Humanity.

[DubiousRuffian]

Both. As time passes, vitae alone wouldn't be enough to sustain the Strix. The diablerist is going to have to go out and purchase relevant merits to accumulate willpower from indulging vices but he doesn't get the willpower, the Strix essence does. I'd also implement mechanics of some sort where the Strix eats away at the diablerist's Humanity.

I don't know that that's necessary. I seem to remember something about the Strix getting WP just by observing someone else committing the Strix's vice.

There are probably two ways I'd do it.

1. You've got a Strix in your head.

I think in the back of the core book there was a twist called something like Beast Guides - where your beast offers you willpower in exchange for actions (but isn't necessarily bound to give you the WP). Maybe rather than frenzy, you have to deal with the Strix taking over. It offers its powers at the cost of WP, and offers WP/advice/etc for indulging its Vice. Whenever you would normally resist frenzy, you instead resist possession. And the Strix can initiate a frenzy roll whenever it wants.

I would worry about this being too adversarial between ST and player, so I would set it up with a player as the Strix.

2. You're becoming like the Strix
Or alternately, you gain the Vice, and maybe your frenzies change in nature. They're more dissociative. You don't black/red-out. Instead, you just go cold. Instead of running a way during fear frenzy because of injury, instead you just start playing with the injury or hurting yourself again. You get the Vice. You can spend WP to use Dread Powers. As you lose Humanity you get more of those memories Rose mentioned, more access to the dread powers and banes.

One thing that gets ignored a lot is the Strix's role as a harbinger/omen of catastrophe. Maybe there's a way to work it in too. Maybe bad shit happens around you, or you get a sense for coming catastrophe.

[Khanwulf]

In my game I have an important and extremely old NPC who in various episodes has been shown as a shadow-dwelling vampiric sorceror and in the past as a kind of smokey shadow-wolf spirit with two pairs of yellow eyes and two pairs of wings. In my head, he consumed one (or two) strix and was subsequently physically destroyed--but escaped to ephemeral form.

How this could happen remains to be revealed but my handwave includes sorcery of course... and clearly this is a character in unique circumstances. It's also possible that he actually is a strix in synthesis with the vampire. Regardless, in practice he exemplifies the vice of the strix in question: sloth. The character does a lot less than he could, and mostly advises and teaches and watches, while prodding others to take measures against his ancient enemy.

In general, any situation that results in a fusion of strix and vampire (or strix and human) that doesn't leave the strix in command should emphasize the vice and how it assumes greater influence. I like the idea that during "frenzy" a character becomes manifestly more strix-like and accesses dread powers otherwise not available. But: there should also be ways for the fusion to increase the power of the strix; as others allude to, there is a kind of completeness that synthesis could give strix that they lack by themselves.

--Khanwulf

[DubiousRuffian]

In my game I have an important and extremely old NPC , there is a kind of completeness that synthesis could give strix that they lack by themselves.

--Khanwulf

I mean, they get a body. They lost the connection to their bodies when they split off, and now they're pissed because they lack bodies. That's part of why they possess people.

Someone above mentioned giving a roll to see if the Strix takes over after diablerie. I'd probably only give that roll to an NPC (unless the player was actually cool with losing their PC), and the NPC lost that roll, I'd probably say that the Strix takes over, but now is actually capable of experiencing kindness and togetherness. They can actually get rehabilitated.

But assuming the vampire stays in control... how would they be made "complete"? That line of Kierkegaard's about how "we can only understand life backwards, but must live it forward" comes to mind. Maybe the vampire gains some kind of connection to fate, similar to the dhampyr? Or, just going by association with Kierkegaard, K thinks we experience anxiety because we have free will and don't know if we'll choose to sin. Maybe a "whole" vampire no longer detaches due to malevolent acts. Or they straight up do not frenzy..

Idk, I'm just spitballing.

Also, Fintan looks really interesting.

[Illuminostro]

The Strix should have never been introduced.

They are practically vampires, themselves. Then there's the meta-fiction of a curious Strix possessing a corpse.

Boom, vampire origin. The whole thing from VtM you tried to avoid.

[Tessie]

Someone above mentioned giving a roll to see if the Strix takes over after diablerie. I'd probably only give that roll to an NPC (unless the player was actually cool with losing their PC), and the NPC lost that roll, I'd probably say that the Strix takes over, but now is actually capable of experiencing kindness and togetherness. They can actually get rehabilitated.

Just make sure the players are aware of the risk and/or make sure it's reversible. I.e. the particular Strix that the PC attempted to diablerise is more than happy to make a deal with the other PCs for releasing their new puppet.
I don't really see the point of messing with the Strix mentally, though. It's pretty on point for Strix to just screw Kindred over even in unexpected ways.

The Strix should have never been introduced.

They are practically vampires, themselves. Then there's the meta-fiction of a curious Strix possessing a corpse.

Boom, vampire origin. The whole thing from VtM you tried to avoid.

For someone who argued there's no canon in VtR, you're awfully quick assuming a single, definite origin for vampires based on circumstantial evidence despite there being multiple optional origins for each Clan. If you don't want the Strix to be the origin of all vampires, don't have them be the origin for all vampires. Doing so doesn't invalidate the Strix or go against the text in any way.

[Draconis]

Hell, there's no canon in Requiem on whether vampires even have a single origin or not. It's possible that all vampires were once one species that diverged. It's also possible that all vampires were originally totally different types of creatures which converged on the form of "looks like a human, sustains itself on the life-force in blood". A couple different 1e books explored the latter option.

The Strix may claim they created vampires, but anything a Strix says should be taken with many grains of salt.

[Khanwulf]

anything a Strix says should be taken with many grains of salt.

Specifically, said grains of salt should be hurled into its eyes and then left on the ground for it to count.

While you run away as quickly as possible.