[2e] brutal, physical Daeva character help.

[Chief Keef]

I want to make a more physical focused Daeva who can also be a bit charming when he needs to with Majesty. I have never played vtr before however and I'm kind of stunned with all the options afforded to me. I'm thinking of going a more fisticuffs type build but I'm not sure which fighting styles to go for? Martial Arts seems like it would be good. Or should I just skip out on fighting style merits completely? Any help would be appreciated.

Edit; oh I should also clarify the system is "New World of Darkness Second Edition."

[proindrakenzol]

What Covenant are you going with? A battle-axe wielding Ordo Dracul Daeva with a focus on the Mystery of the Wyrm and merit dots in Kindred Dueling and Riding the Wave plus Celerity, Vigor, and Majesty is terrifying. Toss in Heavy Weapons style and you'll be a dervish of destruction.

[HelmsDerp]

What books are you allowed to choose from? Chronicles of Darkness has a looooot of options for fighting styles but they're tucked away all over the place. The full array of options means more cool things your character could potentially do but also means more work for you and your storyteller.

Since you're asking about Martial Arts I assume you're at minimum looking at both Vampire the Requiem 2nd edition and the Chronicles of Darkness core rule book. Beyond that: Hurt Locker has numerous fighting styles that may interest you and Secrets of the Covenants has a fighting style for the Ordo Dracul. That one is more useful if you're using high damage, high penalty weapons though.

The first dot of martial arts is good for any hand to hand combatant and so is the fifth. The dots in between aren't as good as the first and last.

The first dot of Kino Mutai from Hurt Locker is excellent. Super easy way to increase the damage of your bite attacks.

[Chief Keef]

What Covenant are you going with? A battle-axe wielding Ordo Dracul Daeva with a focus on the Mystery of the Wyrm and merit dots in Kindred Dueling and Riding the Wave plus Celerity, Vigor, and Majesty is terrifying. Toss in Heavy Weapons style and you'll be a dervish of destruction.

My character is going with Invictus, I think. Of the options the ST allows it seems like it makes the most sense considering his backstory.

[Chief Keef]

What books are you allowed to choose from? Chronicles of Darkness has a looooot of options for fighting styles but they're tucked away all over the place. The full array of options means more cool things your character could potentially do but also means more work for you and your storyteller.

Since you're asking about Martial Arts I assume you're at minimum looking at both Vampire the Requiem 2nd edition and the Chronicles of Darkness core rule book. Beyond that: Hurt Locker has numerous fighting styles that may interest you and Secrets of the Covenants has a fighting style for the Ordo Dracul. That one is more useful if you're using high damage, high penalty weapons though.

The first dot of martial arts is good for any hand to hand combatant and so is the fifth. The dots in between aren't as good as the first and last.

The first dot of Kino Mutai from Hurt Locker is excellent. Super easy way to increase the damage of your bite attacks.

I'm not sure what books are allowed but the ST seems pretty chill I am pretty sure hurt locker is available. Should I be using the bite attack often?

Also the level 4 martial arts merit where unarmed attacks deal lethal damage seems really strong. Is it not actually that good?

[proindrakenzol]

My character is going with Invictus, I think. Of the options the ST allows it seems like it makes the most sense considering his backstory.

If you want to be truly brutal in combat, I'd still suggest the Riding the Wave and Kindred Dueling merits, since Frenzy gives you a lot of buffs, and you want to be able to control it.

[HelmsDerp]

Vampires downgrade almost all sources of lethal damage to bashing, so the +2 damage from the fifth dot helps a lot and the fourth dot only helps you when you're punching things that aren't vampires.

It's generally good but wasted on vampires.

[Marcus]

As other pointed out, to have a brutal Daeva in combat I'd go for:

- Coil of the Wyrm at 4
- Riding the wave 1 (I'd rather skip the following as with Coil of the wyrm you are not spending wp to ride the wave anymore). I'd keep the 1st though for the 1L on the bite (bite is always doing Lethal to vampire too)
- Whatever level of Vigor you can afford
- Celerity at least 1 to interrupt and initiative
- Resilience as a nice to have
- There are devotion which are really good to maximize the synergy between Celerity and Vigor: e.g.: sudden strength etc. which is allowing you to add your celerity dots to your strength whenever you are using celerity in a turn
- I'd take Grapple as specialty for brawl and I'd go for brawl cause with the bite you can directly deal lethal to vampire. Furthermore, as long as you are controlling the grapple you won't be harmed while you could in case of a weaponry duel.
- If you want to go for weaponry, I'd go for axes.

It pretty much does depend on the XP you can dispose.

Davea are facilitate in having huge pools from an early stage but it's hard for them to deal aggravated which is what is really doing the difference.
On a long run I think Gangrel has an edge here.

I'm not sure what books are allowed but the ST seems pretty chill I am pretty sure hurt locker is available. Should I be using the bite attack often?

Also the level 4 martial arts merit where unarmed attacks deal lethal damage seems really strong. Is it not actually that good?

Definitely yes. Bite allows you not only to deal lethals but also to replenish your blood pool continuing boosting your attributes to maintain the grapple control.

[Tessie]

- Coil of the Wyrm at 4

Not particularly viable for an Invictus character.

Davea are facilitate in having huge pools from an early stage but it's hard for them to deal aggravated which is what is really doing the difference.
On a long run I think Gangrel has an edge here.

Aggravated damage is very hard for anyone to deal. The very few ways to get it have drawbacks that make them highly situational. Since you're mentioning Gangrel you're probably thinking about Claws of the Unholy, but that can only be used in Frenzy (which for a non-Ordo is generally uncontrolled) and sacrifices the damage modifier. Another drawback with aggravated damage on a whole is that fights generally ends in death instead of just torpor for the opponent if surrender isn't on the table. That's not a reputation most people want.

Otherwise I generally agree with you. Just switch out axes for heavy weapons in general.

Just one extra note for biting: Take the first dot of Kino Mutai in Hurt Locker for a +1 damage modifier. Also, don't rely exclusively on biting people. That's how you end up with blood bonds whenever you fight other Kindred.

Edit: Final note: Grappling is extremely OP in this system so go through it with your ST first in case you want to house rule a few things or ban a few Merits.

[Baaldam]

Here's a suggestion for characters that are definitely not begining level - Destructive Might (Vigor ••••, Resilience •••), 30 xp, Ancient Mysteries, pgs.74-75.
Expensive, but gives quite whaloop with aggr.damage, hits that delimb the target, some level of armor and other stuff.

Admitedly, might require some checking or update with your ST and group, but worth for reference at least, i think.

[DubiousRuffian]

- Destructive Might (Vigor ••••, Resilience •••), 30 xp,

Using the new Devotion rules, I think it'll have a lower cost. For prerequisites, 12xp for in clan Vigor, 12xp for out of clan Resilience. But the Devotion itself has 7 dots in total, which you halve and round down - so 3xp.

[Baaldam]

Using the new Devotion rules, I think it'll have a lower cost. For prerequisites, 12xp for in clan Vigor, 12xp for out of clan Resilience. But the Devotion itself has 7 dots in total, which you halve and round down - so 3xp.

Oh yeah, makes sense with the changed xp costs for everything in 2e, something i forgot due to barely playing since. Thanks for reminding me.

[Live Bait]

If you don’t mind a little cheese Boxing from Hurt Locker is a striking style so if I’ve read the rules right once you have 5 dots in it you can pick up any of the abilities that Martial Arts at one xp each without taking the between dots (between Boxing and MA you can one shot head shot most mortals) also if I’m reading it right Iron Skin on page 63 of CofD is great for Kindred.

[Live Bait]

Now I have a bit more time I’d like to point out that Light Weapons 2 + Celerity boosted Defence + Stake + Vigor = any vampire without Resistance being taken out. Daeva are combat monsters in this edition so the real question is how do you want to be good at combat? You said fisticuffs so I’m assuming you prefer unarmed but consider the Shiv merit and a stake option for Kindred, 2e favours first strike and first blood can win you a fight whereas numbers are your enemy since they can reduce your defence.

[Marcus]

That's quite true indeed. A stake with a bit of vigor (and attribute boost) is a bit too hard to deal with without resilience.