Whats it like to be blood bound to an enemy?

[monteparnas]

Think Gaining a dot or two in your regnants covenant or one of the ":Not a member" Merits in secrets of the covenant would be appropiate?

I don't think so. There's a big difference between being Bound to someone and being Bound to their beliefs or organization, and the organization knows it. It may happen with time that your situation brings you closer and you're eventually recognized as a member? Yes, it may happen. But no one is really expecting this at the moment.

No matter how strong the bond is, you are still yourself. The many possible reactions we talked before derive from the fact that you are you. The bond creates the feelings, nothing else. Not only that, the precise fact that the bond is an obsession, a maddened love, also means that it is actually far from reliable as a means of control. Mad lovers do mad things. Why would a Covenant trust a sudden conversion caused by this chaotic feeling? Or your sudden conversion just at face value, if they don't know?

For the Regnant's Covenant you're not an asset, you're a liability.

[Prince of the Night]

Think Gaining a dot or two in your regnants covenant or one of the ":Not a member" Merits in secrets of the covenant would be appropiate?

[Hastur00]

What to do with someones bloodbound thrall when their in torpor? Stake them or let them go their own way


obviously if their regnant meets final death and they are now trying to kill you you have no choice but to destroy them.

If the Regent is under for long enough, you can always Bond their Thrall later and rationalize it to them after as "I had to do SOMETHING to keep you from coming at my ass with a stake, and I didn't want to kill you for multiple reasons, and you can just wait til your bloodsugar-daddy wakes up, sooo..."

Of course, odds are if you made it that long without them taking a shot at you, it's probably unnecessary.

Ghouls are already more used to this kind of heavy-handed pragmatism from Kindred, so it would probably have a better chance of working with them.

[monteparnas]

Again that depends a lot. Without the Regnant to tell a Thrall what to do, they're pretty free to interpret their Regnant's best interests in their own way. The emotion is there, but the orders are not. So each Thrall is an entirely distinct situation at that time. They can be your worse enemies or best allies.

[Prince of the Night]

What to do with someones bloodbound thrall when their in torpor? Stake them or let them go their own way


obviously if their regnant meets final death and they are now trying to kill you you have no choice but to destroy them.

[Hastur00]

Would it be reasonable to conclude that a member of the lancea sanctum might interpret being bound to one of the circle or the ordo dracul as being a trial they are meant to face.

Oh sure, if they're the kind of person who rationalizes hardships into lessons. "Not even the Blood can defeat True Faith," etc.
Job would be proud.

[monteparnas]

Would it be reasonable to conclude that a member of the lancea sanctum might interpret being bound to one of the circle or the ordo dracul as being a trial they are meant to face.

Sure.

To be precise, almost any interpretation by the thrall would be reasonable. That's the sum of the previous points.

[Prince of the Night]

Would it be reasonable to conclude that a member of the lancea sanctum might interpret being bound to one of the circle or the ordo dracul as being a trial they are meant to face.

[Hastur00]

When Bound to someone, you respect their strengths, forgive their flaws and failings, empathize with their motives, and live for their attention.

If you loved them, now you idolize them. If they were a peer, now they're an older sibling. If they were your authority, now they're your ruler. If they were an *enemy*... 😬

Its like they're injecting subservience and Stockholm's syndrome into your veins. You might loathe them for it, but you find yourself respecting the power or cunning they used to defeat you. Contempt for their ignorance, misguidence, and moral failings dim to reveal new understanding. A level 3 Bond might bring you to the conclusion that you were wrong to have ever opposed them in the first place, or that your de facto subservience is the appropriate penalty for opposing them, or that you never deserved to oppose them in the first place.

At best you'd find yourself with a newfound, if grudging, tolerance and appreciation of their opinions and metaphysical leanings. At worst, you'd be crushed with political or philosophical humiliation. Maybe even convert, as an unconscious bid to bring you closer together.

Depending on their depth and nature of their faith, an LeS would likely react... pretty poorly to being bound by a Crone. Leaving alone their existing ethical and political antipathy, being Bound to them would be a symbolic representation of their superior faith, or their God(ess) defeating yours.

In short, a nightmarishly unmaking experience, even if your Regnant doesn't abuse you.

Breaking points might be appropriate depending on how badly you take your new attitude, how important opposing them was, or how abhorrent you find it to enact their will.

That said, intensity, variables, and pre-existing relationship are everything.

[monteparnas]

There are ways to intensify abuse without overwhelming the Vinculum. This is really a complex subject with too many variables and variants. Real stories of abuse have a lot of situations that went incredibly far and became really terrible without the need for any supernatural or chemical dependency, imagine with that.

And again, what does that religion means to the thrall? Do not assume that every member of any Covenant is emotionally attached in the same way or intensity. To some it is their single anchor and defining factor as a person, to other it is more like a social club for monthly parties, most are somewhere in between.

Now, how to deal with captured Ghouls is an interesting question, specially because they're still bound to the addiction, but not anymore to the Bond, so they may have their own plans that will affect their utility. I would say that the smartest option is to evaluate each one before making a decision.

[Prince of the Night]

too much abuse can overwhelm the viniculum or cause it to snap

I think its probaly safe to say youd let your thrall retain their religion for that reason.

Wonder though what would happen with captured enemy ghouls

When you've allready killed their old domitor. Claim them yourself?

Auction them off?

[Baaldam]

Keep in mind that individuals won't necessarily hate others because of Covenant differences. It boils down to the emotions of the person, and there is no rule for what they are.

Yes, to both this and the fact that some regnants are cunning enough to be able to exploit the emotions engendered by the Vinculum while keeping their abuse of the (supposedly) one-sided relationship somewhat subtle, at least for a time.

[monteparnas]

Keep in mind that individuals won't necessarily hate others because of Covenant differences. It boils down to the emotions of the person, and there is no rule for what they are.

[espritdecalmar]

Horrible, horrible. You ever been in love? It's all the worst parts of that. The sickness whose cause is also the cure. You can of course do whatever you want, unless your Better Half tells you not to. Suicide is always an option. Oh, but we're talking about blood bonds. You ever hated someone with your entire being? It's all the best parts of that. It's a little heartbreak, a lotta soulpain. A Lance in church might end up confessing, might not. Depends on what the Acolyte wants, again and again and again. You can't generalize when it comes to love, even the awful evil version that vampires get up to. Better leave that up to the person who has power over you, because love is power or something like that.

ADDENDUM: People murder their lovers all the time. They don't call it a crime of passion just for the Maury crowd.

[Prince of the Night]

The conflicting feelings are probaly unsettling and unnerving? Whats it like to be say a member of the Sanctum blood bound to one of the circle? Would you probaly be able to continue attending minight mass?