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13 Licks -- The Curses of Caine in Blood &Smoke

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Kerensky View Post
    Excellent translation of the curses to the new system! I'd really like to use these in a conversion I plan on doing for my next game (after my current WoD game is over). I think your tying the curse to the individual Kindred's humanity is awesome. As the Man weakens, the Curse becomes stronger and more restrictive.

    Thanks! I appreciate it! I can't take credit for tying the Humanity factor in, as that's the new design aesthetic for the updated Requiem core! But I liked that so much, and I've run enough "Masquiem" chronicles, that I wanted to have these jive with the new material.

    Originally posted by Kerensky View Post
    Question about the Giovanni curse though: As written, you have their victims having to succeed on a roll that is limited by their attacker's Humanity. Wouldn't this become harder to succeed at (for the victim) the more inhumane the Kindred becomes? Maybe it should be I think that would bring it in line with the other curses that get more restrictive as their humanity wanes.
    As for the Giovanni: My intention was that the more inhumane the Necromancer becomes, the more difficult it becomes for her to feed on the fly, or in a convenient way at all. A Humanity 2 Giovanni's victim will rarely succeed in not screaming, since he'd only have 2 dice to resist the urge, even if he were willing to be fed from. The vampire's not likely to grab someone off the street if the guy might scream...unless she beats him into unconsciousness. Even then, the marks are still going to be a problem...

    If it's 10 - Humanity, it means it gets easier to feed as the vampire's Humanity gets lower. That said, I ought to add a duration on how long the bite marks last.

    Edit: I think just realised what the confusion was. By limited, I mean the roll is "capped", not subtracted. i.e., Bob the Blood Doll has Resolve + Composure 5, but Lucretia the Giovanni has Humanity 3, so he only gets 3 dice to resist. If her Humanity were 5 or higher, he'd get his full pool.

    Originally posted by Kerensky View Post
    The Giovanni are known to feast on the dead and the dying in classic WoD, due to the extra damage that their Kiss inflicted on their victims. Perhaps another curse option for them would be that along with the usual one point of lethal damage inflicted for every Vitae taken, the Necromancer inflicts another 8 - Humanity points of bashing damage as well. This way, some of the old flavor is retained and it also keeps in line with the linking of all the curses to Humanity. Just my two cents.

    This really is great work.
    I decided not to add the damage factor because I preferred it as a Masquerade breachy weakness, rather than a deadly one. You could easily build the Bane that way, though. This is just my take on it!
    Last edited by Yossarian; 12-10-2013, 05:59 AM.



    Social justice vampire/freelancer | He/Him

    Actual Play: Vampire: The Requiem – Bloodlines
    Masquiem: Curses of Caine in Requiem 2nd
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    • #17
      Ah, I see what you meant now. Funny how you can read something one way, then hear it explained, then read it again and get it.
      Last edited by Kerensky; 12-10-2013, 06:22 AM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Kerensky View Post
        Ah, I see what you meant now. Funny how you can read something one way, then hear it explained, then read it again and get it.
        Oh yeah, I've made the same kind of mistake. I use "limited" because that's what they tend to use in the official lingo of late, but I prefer capped, myself.



        Social justice vampire/freelancer | He/Him

        Actual Play: Vampire: The Requiem – Bloodlines
        Masquiem: Curses of Caine in Requiem 2nd
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        • #19
          Setites have been updated (the old version was pretty superfluous in certain contexts); still trying to think up something better for Nosferatu that isn't merely a reskin of what's going in Blood & Smoke.



          Social justice vampire/freelancer | He/Him

          Actual Play: Vampire: The Requiem – Bloodlines
          Masquiem: Curses of Caine in Requiem 2nd
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          • #20
            I think you did a good job making it more succinct.


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            • #21
              Thanks. I realised that the other version probably had too good a chance of being a kill switch on a lucky roll, and I wanted it to be more of a behavior affecting weakness. Plus, it basically meant nothing at high Blood Potency.



              Social justice vampire/freelancer | He/Him

              Actual Play: Vampire: The Requiem – Bloodlines
              Masquiem: Curses of Caine in Requiem 2nd
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              • #22
                Originally posted by Yossarian View Post
                [...]still trying to think up something better for Nosferatu that isn't merely a reskin of what's going in Blood & Smoke.
                Are you using Social Influence rules?


                I'm So Meta Even This Acronym

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Thorbes View Post

                  Are you using Social Influence rules?
                  I was thinking of that, but I wasn't sure how to configure it. I had the idea that they had to get through a number of extra Doors equal to 10 - Humanity, but it doesn't make that much sense in the context of just being monstrous. Since I want to be true to the spirit of the original, I at least have to keep the ugliness aspect. Admittedly, I've only ever used the new Nos weakness when running hybrid games, so I've not had that much experience in testing this version.

                  Right now, I like the flavour of what I've got written down, in that they become more monstrous as they fall to the Beast. But I feel like the social penalties I've created are a bit redundant, given that by the time you hit the point where the bane really hurts, you're already dealing with some pretty nasty Social penalties from low Humanity. Obfuscate also complicates the issue, since it doesn't make sense to apply the penalty when you're using Familiar Stranger, unless you're going with the Requiem style aura-of-creepiness weakness, which I'm trying not to do.

                  Maybe I'm over-thinking it? Maybe this needs to be a soft roleplay kind of weakness. You get monstrous as you fall to the Beast. That's it. There are lots of consequences for being a monster walking about in public. Food for thought...I don't know that I'll go that route, but it gets my brain ticking.
                  Last edited by Yossarian; 12-13-2013, 06:55 AM.



                  Social justice vampire/freelancer | He/Him

                  Actual Play: Vampire: The Requiem – Bloodlines
                  Masquiem: Curses of Caine in Requiem 2nd
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                  • #24
                    The aditional Doors thing is an option. Another one that I sugested back when the Nos Bane was still in development and I think gives interesting hooks is this: When interacting with mortals whose Integrity (or similar) rating is higher than her Humanity the default First Impresion is one step lower than usual (so normally Hostile).

                    This forces Nos that want to have meanigful interactions to seek jaged and broken individuals (or use their own Nightmare powers to bring prospective people down to that level).


                    I'm So Meta Even This Acronym

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                    • #25
                      I was going to suggest something similar to Thorbes, but I was going to say since the Masquerade weakness was not even having an appearance attribute at all, having them auto-fail appearance based social rolls against anyone with higher humanity/splat equivalent. But I like the lowered first impression idea better. Has the same feel, but doesn't need to differentiate between which social rolls are "appearance based". They just make a poor first impression because they're ugly, except on those who are too broken to care. It's also still a pretty hefty weakness without totally crippling social Nos character concepts, and I like that it piggybacks on an existing system.


                      Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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                      • #26
                        Yeah, I think Impressions is the right direction, and the flavour of it is that they get Masquerade breachy as they get lower Humanity. Thanks Thorbes & co.! I'll got back to the lab and see what I can come up with. I have to account for Obfuscate, but I like the idea that you're so frigging hideous that it even comes through your magic powers--that aspect skirts VERY closely to being too much like the proper Requiem Nos weakness, but I can deal.



                        Social justice vampire/freelancer | He/Him

                        Actual Play: Vampire: The Requiem – Bloodlines
                        Masquiem: Curses of Caine in Requiem 2nd
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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Yossarian View Post
                          Yeah, I think Impressions is the right direction, and the flavour of it is that they get Masquerade breachy as they get lower Humanity. Thanks Thorbes & co.! I'll got back to the lab and see what I can come up with. I have to account for Obfuscate, but I like the idea that you're so frigging hideous that it even comes through your magic powers--that aspect skirts VERY closely to being too much like the proper Requiem Nos weakness, but I can deal.
                          How did Masquerade handle obfuscate vs. the Nos weakness?


                          Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
                            How did Masquerade handle obfuscate vs. the Nos weakness?
                            I don't believe that the Nosferatu weakness possed any problem for obfuscate back in Masquerade. The Nos weakness back then was that you had an appearance of 0. Back then, appearance was another attribute like strength (the list of attributes were different then). So while the worst looking human might have an appearance of 1, a Nos had 0, so they looked worse than any human. Appearance played a role in first impressions, so most people would react poorly on a first encounter. Anyways, obfuscate makes you psychically invisible so appearance wouldn't matter unless someone could pierce the illusion (or you revealed yourself).

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                            • #29
                              Obfuscate in Masquerade didn't so much negate the weakness so much as make Nosferatu playable at all. It was still a bit of a cheat, but, honestly, the Nosferatu needed all the help they could get. Plus I think it required a lot of effort to create a persona with an effective "Appearance" trait.



                              Social justice vampire/freelancer | He/Him

                              Actual Play: Vampire: The Requiem – Bloodlines
                              Masquiem: Curses of Caine in Requiem 2nd
                              Storytellers Vault: Author Page

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                              • #30
                                Eh, seems to me like it wouldn't be necessary to make special provision for the interaction between the Nos weakness and Obfuscate, then. Or you could allow Obfuscate and other supernatural disguise powers to "cover up" the weakness, but apply a humanity cap or a (10 - humanity) penalty on rolls to activate such powers.


                                Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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