Urhanu – WtF wolf based werewolves

[wyrdhamster]

Searched Forsaken subforum for topic dedicated solely for living as wolf based werewolf – but could not find one. So started this one.

Urhanu ( WtF equivalent of Lupus from WtA in Werewolf Translation Guide ), are optional rule and setting part with werewolves that started their life as wolves – becoming more and more intelligent with First Change.
They were (semi)officially updated to 2E WtF in Ephemera preview from end of 2014:

Actually, to hell with it. Let’s update the Urhanu (Forsaken’s version of Lupus) from the Translation Guide right now.

An Urhanu cannot choose Mental Skills to be primary at character creation. Worse, any time an Urhanu character attempts an action that relies on a Mental Skill in which she has no dots, her roll is automatically reduced to a chance die even if she spends Willpower on the roll. This lack of book learning doesn’t affect rolls to activate Gifts or rites. On the positive side, Urhanu start with Harmony 6. They’re also able to focus on breaching the Gauntlet to the exclusion of pretty much anything else; when Reaching treat the Gauntlet strength as one step lower (so a small town uses the Gauntlet strength of the wilderness). Urhanu can spend a point of Essence to Reach into the Shadow when not at a Locus. She can extend this facility to other packmates but must spend an additional point of Essence per packmate.

Okay, so here are some starting questions:

1. I assume that Urhanu in WtF are more and more numbers are decreasing, as general population of wolves on world. So in Dark Eras settings, Urhanu would be much more every day view and part of Forsaken society?
2. How Urhanu join Tribes? They wolf parents say them ‘Our pack is following ancient Wolf God’? :/
3. How Urhanu would learn Gifs and get Renowns?
4. Have Urhanu Wolf-Blooded equivalent? Something like more intelligent wolves in normal pack, maybe?
5. How typical Urhanu and wolves pack lives, everyday? What, they make some dens like wolves, only bigger, to let Urhanu take Hishu form? Would Urhanu impose ‘Alpha and Omega’ pack paradigm, even if normal free running wolves do not follow it.
6. Are Urhanu instantly after First Change know First Tongue?

[The young man in the cafe]

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/werewolf-the-forsaken/914222-forsaken-youths

The previous on this worked some things out

[wyrdhamster]

For ease of reference, fans made sum-ups of rules by Aspel - More comments and questions to come.

And because I went to the trouble of making the header all fancy, but can only use four images: Raised By Wolves

Your character lacks social graces, and just can't deal with the modern world.
Whatever the cause, you take -3 to any Mental rolls, Social rolls besides Animal
Ken or Intimidation, and Drive, Firearms, and Larceny rolls that you don't have a
Specialty in. If you fail an Extended action, treat it as a Dramatic Failure unless
you spend a point of Willpower. Your gruff nature also tends to irritate people,
and in Social Maneuvering with characters outside of your pack, you have to deal
with an additional Door so long as your behavior and outlook persist
On the plus side, Intimidation and Animal Ken get 8-Again.
Possible Sources: An abusive childhood, Breaking towards Spirit, spending a
long time away from human allies. Being actually raised by wolves.
Resolution: Working to integrate (back) into human society, perhaps through
interacting with humans outside of the pack, or long term acclimation. The
Condition may turn up again as a non-Persistent Condition in stressful times. A
character may suppress--but not shed--the condition temporarily with meditation.
Beat: Your upbringing causes you issues. You might miss social cues, or you
may accidentally piss someone off, or your lack of ability to think clearly and use
technology may set your pack back.

[wyrdhamster]

Wereblooded are what fans calling 'Wolfblooded wolves'. And they are treated as super-inteligent wolves - like raptors from Jurassic Park series - running and leading in literal wolf packs.

Some Wereblooded Tells:

Long ago, men and wolves were allies. Maybe it was due to abilities like this? Wereblooded with this Tell are still feral, but something about them makes them seem domesticated. Maybe it's a friendly bearing, or the way they look softer. They may even have the Small Frame merit.
Boon: Your presence tends to go unnoticed, and when you are noticed, people tend to assume you're a husky or some other mixed breed. Rarely will there ever be panic that you might be a wild animal. Because of your approachable nature, anyone who actually does interact with you (perhaps looking for a collar you may or may not have) gains an additional Vice while in your presence of "sharing my secrets or troubles with this dog".

Legends abound of talking animals, whether they're cunning serpents or little birdies whispering secrets. A wereblooded with this Tell embodies that legend.
Boon: Whether it's harsh and guttural, oddly lyrical and feminine, or simply the kind of voice that would be utterly normal if only it weren't coming from the throat of a wolf, the character can speak in human tongue, though anyone who witnesses it is subject to Lunacy at +3. By spending a point of Willpower, you may also speak in First Tongue for the scene.

Even though the wereblooded is Urhan, their eyes are unnatural and as intelligent as that of a hishu. They don't just look unusual, though, they allow the wereblooded to be far more perceptive than the average wolf.
Boon: The character can distinguish colours, but beyond that, you may send your senses across the Gauntlet as described on page 95. Without any way to spend Essence, you may not be able to do so reflexively, but by spending a point of Willpower you can see any Spirits in Twilight.

Ghostly and ephemeral white wolves are sometimes reported to stalk the heaths and moors of old, foggy places in the highlands. In actuality, it's wereblooded who have this Tell.
Boon: By spending a point of Willpower, you can shift into Twilight, taking on the aspects of a Spirit. You can interact with Spirits, and see what happens outside of Twilight, but can no longer interact with the physical world. Spending another point of Willpower returns you to the physical world.

Honestly, those might be a bit better than the ones in the book. A lot of the standard Wolfblooded Tells are uncontrollable or very narrowly useful.

[The young man in the cafe]

Wereblooded are what fans calling 'Wolfblooded wolves'. And they are treated as super-inteligent wolves - like raptors from Jurassic Park series - running and leading in literal wolf packs.

I add some downsides to those tells later in that thread

[Korogra]

As I am a big fan of the Urhanu, these really appeal to me. While I feel like most of them would probably be snatched up by Predator Kings Red Talon style...wolf born Uratha are just a really cool idea as long as you avoid all the horrible things that came with Lupus characters back in WtA

[wyrdhamster]

Not seeing your answers, I try to answer my own questions - you can point me where thing become illogical or contradictory with WtF setting.

• So in Dark Eras settings, Urhanu would be much more every day view?

I assume that generational ‘living as wolves’ is much more often in past Eras and even previous Uratha in first generation ( raised as humans ) by choosing animal mates and starting literal wolf packs – can have Urhanu children with her/his wolf mate. As Uratha – as whole – is not differencing human or wolf form, one can ‘become’ Urhanu just by abandoning human form, most of the time.

• How Urhanu join Tribes? They wolf parents say them ‘Our pack is following ancient Wolf God’?

With Wereblooded being a thing, we can have intelligent wolves telling ( woofing? ) their pups badtime stories. I think that Urhanu are more focused on Firstborn part of Tribe – those ‘awesome Wolf Gods’ – than hunting particular Prey. Still, if wolf pack see monstrous spiders or just dangerous humans in their Territory, they are as much eager to call Siskur-Dah as human packs.

Tribes in particular Urhanu packs are much more ‘traditions and stories’ than political conflicts of human raised Uratha.

• How Urhanu would learn Gifs and get Renowns?

Urhanu, beside ‘upbearing’ and background events – are the same Uratha as those ‘human based’. They still get’s Gift and Renows as any other Uratha would.

• Have Urhanu Wolf-Blooded equivalent? Something like more intelligent wolves in normal pack, maybe?

The so called Wereblooded, wolves with Tells of humans. I envision that Werebloods are leading their packs more often than normal wolves – but I can also imagine Wereblood character just liking company of his ‘simpler brothers’ and running with wolf pack.

• How typical Urhanu and wolves pack lives, everyday? What, they make some dens like wolves, only bigger, to let Urhanu take Hishu form? Would Urhanu impose ‘Alpha and Omega’ pack paradigm, even if normal free running wolves do not follow it?

This is trickiest question – but I assume they will live, most of the time, as normal wolf pack. Wereblooded may sense more and use here limited magic to help her kind – but at the end of the day they are wolves. They live as wolves. Just see documentary films on lives of wolves – and add a bit of Tells magic, here and there.

Proper Urhanu can choose to have a bit larger den than rest of the pack – but can also simply run from time to time alone, as in Hishu form. His Harmony will need a balance from time to time so he will need a bit time-space from his wolf pack.

• Are Urhanu instantly after First Change know First Tongue?

The same way as typical Uratha they can understand First Tongue. I envision that they need more time to accumulate to being able to speak in first place, so for few days they stretch their jaws and muscles and try not howl all the time. Once this passed, they do not differ than any Uratha in using language of Spirits.

BONUS: As inspiration for Urhanu, I think best works anime Wolf’s Rain where all protagonists feels more as ‘wolves changing to humans’ than ‘humans changing to wolves’.

[wyrdhamster]

I'm creating Urhanu NPC - What would be good 'Wolf name' for character? Something Native American sounding - like Many Steps or Howl In The Night? Hmm, what do you think? Korogra ?

[Korogra]

I'm creating Uthanu NPC - What would be good 'Wolf name' for character? Something Native American sounding - like Many Steps or Howl In The Night? Hmm, what do you think? Korogra ?

I have an Urhanu character who was given a relatively modern name by his Uratha mother ( being born in a rather uncomfortable and similar manner as Urazakh-Angir, though he never developed delusions of being Wolf-Jesus. When he got to a stage where he could think coherently, maybe three/ four months old ,He was more or less like " Oh, I'm a wolf pup who has human like intelligence and reasoning abilities... God was not kind to me " then he underwent his first change a few years later and everything got better, more or less.) named Kohta Wolf-born / later Kohta Storm-reign.

But if you want a really Red Talon-y/ Native American sounding name, those two work pretty well. Others could possibly be Herds Shadows or Tool-Maker ( if they were able to rise above their mental handicaps and had a grasp on technology) Last Howl, Bleeds Rarely, and Fells Trees( hehe, call back) are all good names too

[Master Aquatosic]

Not seeing your answers, I try to answer my own questions - you can point me where thing become illogical or contradictory with WtF setting.

• So in Dark Eras settings, Urhanu would be much more every day view?

I assume that generational ‘living as wolves’ is much more often in past Eras and even previous Uratha in first generation ( raised as humans ) by choosing animal mates and starting literal wolf packs – can have Urhanu children with her/his wolf mate. As Uratha – as whole – is not differencing human or wolf form, one can ‘become’ Urhanu just by abandoning human form, most of the time.[LIST]

I thought we were trying to avoid the grossness of werewolf bestiality?

[wyrdhamster]

I thought we were trying to avoid the grossness of werewolf bestiality?

Well, main WtF line try to - Urhanu are optional rules from Werewolf Translation Guide.

But let's analyze it in light of 2E WtF then. If you have:
1. Wolf based werewolves ( via Urhanu rules ),
2. Werewolves that are indistinguishable in both human and wolf forms ( as 2E Uratha ),
3. Werewolves that are spreading inside wolves population ( via Urhanu rules ),
4. Werewolves that can mate with their own kind ( 2E Uratha ),
5. Werewolves that can change sex at will ( 2E Luna's Embrace Facet ),

Then what stops Uratha couple to take wolf forms for few months and 'bitch' in couple to have litter of pups for all purposes will be wolves before First Change? And if two Uratha can have wolf pups children, then surely one Uratha in wolf form can have wolf pups children with proper wolf mate.

[Master Aquatosic]

Well, main WtF line try to - Urhanu are optional rules from Werewolf Translation Guide.

But let's analyze it in light of 2E WtF then. If you have:
1. Wolf based werewolves ( via Urhanu rules ),
2. Werewolves that are indistinguishable in both human and wolf forms ( as 2E Uratha ),
3. Werewolves that are spreading inside wolves population ( via Urhanu rules ),
4. Werewolves that can mate with their own kind ( 2E Uratha ),
5. Werewolves that can change sex at will ( 2E Luna's Embrace Facet ),

Then what stops Uratha couple to take wolf forms for few months and 'bitch' in couple to have litter of pups for all purposes will be wolves before First Change? And if two Uratha can have wolf pups children, then surely one Uratha in wolf form can have wolf pups children with proper wolf mate.

Oh, well if both parents are full Uratha, I have no issue with it. It's just with Uratha from any background mating with non-sapient wolves. I would make the fetus unviable and call it a violation of the Oath of the Moon to discourage players from trying it.

[wyrdhamster]

If you want to have spontanous Urhanu from wolves, why to stop propagatorem species? If you want 'werewolves from wolves' and ' 2 werewolves having wolf pups', why not 'werewolves + wolf having pups' that also can become werewolves?

It's more 'natural' if two werewolves having wolf pups?

[The young man in the cafe]

Oh, well if both parents are full Uratha, I have no issue with it. It's just with Uratha from any background mating with non-sapient wolves. I would make the fetus unviable and call it a violation of the Oath of the Moon to discourage players from trying it.

Well, the talking were-blooded wolves would a check in favor of them being sapient but alien to human viewpoints... so an edge case?

[Master Aquatosic]

Well, the talking were-blooded wolves would a check in favor of them being sapient but alien to human viewpoints... so an edge case?

Wereblooded wolves are magical sapient half-spirit wolves though. That says nothing about normal wolves.

I love the idea of werewolves that start out life as wolves, but I want the mechanics to discourage roleplaying bestiality